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Unread Yesterday, 11:34
KelleyCook KelleyCook is offline
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Maher View Post
Now that everyone is starting to get a more realistic feel for what their robots can do, here are a few questions about what you think the typical winning Week 1/2 alliance will look like:
  • What roles will its members play/what will the overall strategy be?
  • Will there be a dedicated defender or will all three robots be primarily offense-focused?
  • Will it be able to score all four rotors?
  • Will higher-ranked alliances be more or less favored than usual?
I'm fairly certain that this is how the playoff winning alliances will be:

* Three (possibly only two) teams all capable of doing Gears. Point values -- especially the 100 in the playoffs -- dictate this.
* Four rotors will almost always be spinning in the playoff rounds (I fully expect in well under a minute in the Michigan state championship). Its very difficult to win if you don't get this.
* After the fourth rotor, those gearbots will also be able to shoot high to get (at least) the remainder of the 40kPa.
* The 3rd alliance choice will probably be a defensive bot to stop the other team from shooting. Depending on how good the other two are at gears, this third team may play defense the whole time.
* Finally that third bot might not even bother attempting to climb. Since preventing a climbing bot from getting to the rope to climb is the same value as climbing yourself.

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Unread Yesterday, 11:45
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EricLeifermann EricLeifermann is offline
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

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Originally Posted by KelleyCook View Post
* Four rotors will almost always be spinning in the playoff rounds (I fully expect in well under a minute in the Michigan state championship). Its very difficult to win if you don't get this.

Kelley Cook
Not a chance this happens in under a minute EVER. The coordination of 3 robots scoring gears, because it's going to take 3 robots scoring gears to get 4 rotors the fastest, isn't going to allow it to take less than a minute. Not to mention how much driving is needed.
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Unread Yesterday, 11:56
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

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Originally Posted by EricLeifermann View Post
Not a chance this happens in under a minute EVER. The coordination of 3 robots scoring gears, because it's going to take 3 robots scoring gears to get 4 rotors the fastest, isn't going to allow it to take less than a minute. Not to mention how much driving is needed.
If there is an alliance that scores three auto gears, they only need to score 3 gears each for the 4 rotors, or 20 second cycles for each robot to make it in 60 seconds. While definitely extremely unlikely, it could happen once or twice a season if teams try to make it so.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:18
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EricLeifermann EricLeifermann is offline
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

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Originally Posted by Poseidon5817 View Post
If there is an alliance that scores three auto gears, they only need to score 3 gears each for the 4 rotors, or 20 second cycles for each robot to make it in 60 seconds. While definitely extremely unlikely, it could happen once or twice a season if teams try to make it so.
20 second cycle is what the elites are going to do. It's not going to be something that an average 3 team alliance is going to do. Not to mention any defense will slow it down.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:24
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

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Originally Posted by EricLeifermann View Post
20 second cycle is what the elites are going to do. It's not going to be something that an average 3 team alliance is going to do. Not to mention any defense will slow it down.
I said it will only happen once or twice in the season. I was merely pointing out that teams would only have to run 20 second cycles to make it so, in any one of the thousands of matches this year.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:27
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

I would predict that at least one week 1 event will be won by teams without a shooting robot. By week two your primary gearing robot will need to pick up some slack to free up a potential shooter, but most of the points will still come from gearing. Shooting won't be a major difference maker except in odd situations until later in the season.
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Unread Yesterday, 12:44
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

3 rotors (1 auto) and 2 hangs.
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Unread Yesterday, 13:06
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
3 rotors (1 auto) and 2 hangs.
This is accurate.
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

I think everyone is underestimating the challenge of placing the gear on the peg. Especially in week 1-2 there are going to be many dropped gears.

I think shooting fuel will win events for early regionals and district events.
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Unread Yesterday, 19:06
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery View Post
3 rotors (1 auto) and 2 hangs.
You got that right....

Teams that can consistently get 3 rotors (120 points) + one auto rotor (+20)
and 2 hangs... (100 Points) score 240 points with no fuel. This wins nearly everything....

winning score week 1 and 2 .....

sprinkle in 90 balls for 30 points....
270 points... wins regionals and definitely districts weeks 3/6

District Champs and half champs: This plus another 180 balls... plus another hang.... 400 points...

(Defense will be HUGE for the fourth rotor points....it is simply ... let the other team get to 3 rotors... and then

I think that actually 2 rotors and an auto and 2 hangs wins almost everything the first couple of weeks.

200 points....

possibly even less.
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Unread Yesterday, 20:13
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

I dont see a consistent hanger being left for the second round of picks (although I would love to be mistaken).

I think two hangs and 3 rotors will be achiveable by the top alliances, with the differentiating factor being teleop/auton fuel, and whether the first gear is done in auton or teleop.

Defense and no match practice for drivers makes me think the 4 rotor alliance will be very rare, at least in weeks 1 and 2.

This actually makes me think that alliances that are seeded 5-8 might have a better shot over other years. If they can get a third pick that climbs consistently, they are at a massive advantage, that can only be offset with a ton of fuel, or an extra rotor. If they know that they only need to keep the opposition within 50 points, they'll make sure that fourth rotor doesn't happen, and then it comes down to restricting the fuel the opposition scores.
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Unread Yesterday, 23:02
6101 Robert 6101 Robert is offline
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harshizzle
This actually makes me think that alliances that are seeded 5-8 might have a better shot over other years.
I definitely agree with you here. Good gear and climbing robots will likely be in insufficient supply. Some smart 5th-8th alliances may even pick gear and climbing robots over better suiting fuel-bots in order to deprive the upper seeds of a solid third partner. You really need 3 robots good with gears to do well, this is another reason why top seeds will find it difficult to carry their alliance partners.
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

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Originally Posted by 6101 Robert View Post
I definitely agree with you here. Good gear and climbing robots will likely be in insufficient supply. Some smart 5th-8th alliances may even pick gear and climbing robots over better suiting fuel-bots in order to deprive the upper seeds of a solid third partner. You really need 3 robots good with gears to do well, this is another reason why top seeds will find it difficult to carry their alliance partners.
+1

I'd almost rather be seed 5, 6, or 7 to get a consistent 2nd pick. In week 1/2, fuel bots will be top ranked teams. Gear bots will be the top picks. Climbers will be at the back end of the snake draft.

IMHO, 3 rotors + 3 hangs wins most competitions week 1/2. Seeds 5-8 have best shot at having 3 climber bots. Top alliance with 2 climbers MUST put up 50 points in fuel to match 3 climbers, a tough order for week 1/2 methinks. Certainly some can do it, but not most.
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

I think that winning alliances will be capable of 4 rotors and 40kpa at many events yes even week 1 and 2. Here is a list of some of the teams competing weeks 1 and 2:

125 175 233 359 118 624 33 67 195 341 126 16 1197 3309 1538 3476 180 148 2468 987 2122 973 1678 610 1114

I fully expect some of these teams to be capable of 40kpa autonomous modes as well.
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Re: How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Poseidon5817 View Post
If there is an alliance that scores three auto gears, they only need to score 3 gears each for the 4 rotors, or 20 second cycles for each robot to make it in 60 seconds. While definitely extremely unlikely, it could happen once or twice a season if teams try to make it so.
That's true but an alliance of that level shouldn't be wasting time trying to get all 4 rotors in a minute. If they can do it that fast, they should be mixing in defense or scoring fuel throughout the match instead of just the last minute.
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