How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

[Lil' Lavery]

3 rotors (1 auto) and 2 hangs.

[JABot67]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

3 rotors (1 auto) and 2 hangs.

This is accurate.

[jayred1127]

I think everyone is underestimating the challenge of placing the gear on the peg. Especially in week 1-2 there are going to be many dropped gears.

I think shooting fuel will win events for early regionals and district events.

[Classified*]

Originally Posted by Edxu

Having an alliance of 3 gear-focused robots and at least 2 climbers will definitely win you any week 1/2 event.


Since you need 12 gears, and presumably 3 less because of auto programs, you need only 9 gears to finish all the rotors.

At a cycle time of 12 seconds, it should take around ~40 seconds for three organized and efficient gear-focused robots to finish all four rotors. This means that 40 seconds into the match, they have 60*2(auto) + 40*2(teleop) + 100 (Playoff Rotor Bonus) = 300 points.

This means that you have 95 seconds to play extremely hard defense on the opposing alliance to stop them from finishing their rotors, as it's basically impossible to make up the score difference by scoring fuel.

With 2 hangers, you can increase your scoring potential to 400.

TL;DR: If you finish your rotors and your opponents don't, you win the match. Fuel doesn't matter.

I think you are way underestimating cycling times. We have an extremely fast robot (18.5 fps) plus an active gear mech that is also very efficient. This weekend during driver practice we were getting at the very least 11 seconds per cycle, but most were more like 15-16 seconds. Our chute was a lot closer than the real field, so I would add 5 seconds at the very least to that. I highly doubt you will get three gearbots that are that fast on an alliance. Most teams gear for around 14 fps. There is also the problem of traffic with all three robots cycling gears which will add at least another few seconds onto that. I would think 25 seconds is a reasonable estimate for a real match.

You can watch our robot cycling in this video.

I'm not saying 4 rotors won't happen. I really think it's feasible, but it will take the better part of the match.

Also, having three robots with a gear auto is going to be rare. The center peg is relatively straightforward (pun intended ) but the side pegs are not. They either require vision tracking or very precise encoder/gyro code. Not something that every team has.

[Chris is me]

The alliance with three consistent hanging robots that also score at least 3 rotors will be enough to win the majority of week 1/2 events.

[Bob Steele]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

3 rotors (1 auto) and 2 hangs.

You got that right....

Teams that can consistently get 3 rotors (120 points) + one auto rotor (+20)
and 2 hangs... (100 Points) score 240 points with no fuel. This wins nearly everything....

winning score week 1 and 2 .....

sprinkle in 90 balls for 30 points....
270 points... wins regionals and definitely districts weeks 3/6

District Champs and half champs: This plus another 180 balls... plus another hang.... 400 points...

(Defense will be HUGE for the fourth rotor points....it is simply ... let the other team get to 3 rotors... and then

I think that actually 2 rotors and an auto and 2 hangs wins almost everything the first couple of weeks.

200 points....

possibly even less.

[Harshizzle]

I dont see a consistent hanger being left for the second round of picks (although I would love to be mistaken).

I think two hangs and 3 rotors will be achiveable by the top alliances, with the differentiating factor being teleop/auton fuel, and whether the first gear is done in auton or teleop.

Defense and no match practice for drivers makes me think the 4 rotor alliance will be very rare, at least in weeks 1 and 2.

This actually makes me think that alliances that are seeded 5-8 might have a better shot over other years. If they can get a third pick that climbs consistently, they are at a massive advantage, that can only be offset with a ton of fuel, or an extra rotor. If they know that they only need to keep the opposition within 50 points, they'll make sure that fourth rotor doesn't happen, and then it comes down to restricting the fuel the opposition scores.

[6101 Robert]

Originally Posted by Harshizzle

This actually makes me think that alliances that are seeded 5-8 might have a better shot over other years.

I definitely agree with you here. Good gear and climbing robots will likely be in insufficient supply. Some smart 5th-8th alliances may even pick gear and climbing robots over better suiting fuel-bots in order to deprive the upper seeds of a solid third partner. You really need 3 robots good with gears to do well, this is another reason why top seeds will find it difficult to carry their alliance partners.

[Parker Brotman]

Here's what I expect to see in Chesapeake:

There might be a few times in which an alliance gets all 4 rotors, but it will be a rare sight and they likely won't be able to replicate it.

Far fewer than 16 robots per event will be able to climb not just weeks 1 and 2, but for the entire season up until DCMP. I'd actually expect the number of climbing robots at each event to be about 8. Because of this, I expect the higher-ranked alliances to have 2 climbing robots and the lower-ranked to have maybe 1 but probably 0 climbing robots.

On the other hand, I think lower-ranked alliances will be able to score more gears due to serpentine alliance selection. This is a year where (with the exception of climbing) it won't matter whether you can complete the tasks as much as it will matter how efficiently you can complete them. Because of this, it will be important to have 3 capable robots on an alliance.

[M.O'Reilly]

Originally Posted by 6101 Robert

I definitely agree with you here. Good gear and climbing robots will likely be in insufficient supply. Some smart 5th-8th alliances may even pick gear and climbing robots over better suiting fuel-bots in order to deprive the upper seeds of a solid third partner. You really need 3 robots good with gears to do well, this is another reason why top seeds will find it difficult to carry their alliance partners.

+1

I'd almost rather be seed 5, 6, or 7 to get a consistent 2nd pick. In week 1/2, fuel bots will be top ranked teams. Gear bots will be the top picks. Climbers will be at the back end of the snake draft.

IMHO, 3 rotors + 3 hangs wins most competitions week 1/2. Seeds 5-8 have best shot at having 3 climber bots. Top alliance with 2 climbers MUST put up 50 points in fuel to match 3 climbers, a tough order for week 1/2 methinks. Certainly some can do it, but not most.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Brian Maher

Now that everyone is starting to get a more realistic feel for what their robots can do, here are a few questions about what you think the typical winning Week 1/2 alliance will look like:

• What roles will its members play/what will the overall strategy be?
• Will there be a dedicated defender or will all three robots be primarily offense-focused?
• Will it be able to score all four rotors?
• Will higher-ranked alliances be more or less favored than usual?

My predictions:
1> Members of the winning alliance will consist of: 1 gearbot, 1 hybrid gear/fuel bot, and 1 defender/fuel bot. All 3 will climb.
2> While many alliances will go for 3 offensive bots, the winner will have a dedicated defender
3> Yes there will be 4 rotors turning ... once. Once an alliance proves they can turn all 4 rotors, heavy defense will be applied and it will not happen again.
4> The winning alliances will come out of the 1,2,and 8 positions.

[Rangel]

Overall I think it will totally depend on what the top 2 robots can do at the event. If the top teams aren't too much better than the rest, lower seeded alliances will likely have the advantage. That said, if the top teams can mix lots of ball scoring in without significantly reducing gear scoring output, I think they will reign supreme. Two really good shooter/gearbots will be able to overcome a lack of a third climb. The real question at that point is will they be able to get all four rotors. I definitely don't think any alliance at early events will be unbeatable because of how time consuming four rotors are.

Edit: All these predictions all seem to be working under the assumption that alliances will select the best robots available during their turns to pick. Rarely ever do the top alliances get the 24th best robot in the event. They usually get a robot far better in reality.

[hydraskull]

I'd be surprised if a regional winning alliance doesn't feature 3 consistent climbers. Missing a climb puts an alliance at a disadvantage, and it's a mechanism that may be the easiest to cheesecake this year - besides a passive gearage. Week 1 and 2 competitions will probably be won by an alliance captain with a hybrid robot, and two gear focused picks. Consistently turning 3 rotors and 3x climb will probably win.

[Taylor]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

My predictions:
4> The winning alliances will come out of the 1,2,and 8 positions.

The 8th alliance captain has a very interesting advantage, particularly within the first three weeks.

[pandamonium]

I think that winning alliances will be capable of 4 rotors and 40kpa at many events yes even week 1 and 2. Here is a list of some of the teams competing weeks 1 and 2:

125 175 233 359 118 624 33 67 195 341 126 16 1197 3309 1538 3476 180 148 2468 987 2122 973 1678 610 1114

I fully expect some of these teams to be capable of 40kpa autonomous modes as well.