How to win Steamworks? (Weeks 1/2)

[Pay Me $2]

If you get 40 kPa autonomous (which can be managed by just one robot), then that would be worth 60 points on its own, which is more than enough to make up for being one rotor behind.

However, I think teleop should mainly focus on gears. If you get a lead on gears, it's generally huge, but the return is diminishing. (At least in qualifying matches. In playoff, if you get the 4th rotor and your opponents don't, you've definitely won.) For example, in a qualifying match, a good strategy might be to go for the first 3 rotors and then focus on fuel. Then, you would need to score 120 balls or more in the high goal in the time your opponents would score 6 gears. You could probably get 40 or so balls per cycle, so even if your cycles are slower than theirs, you could still win.

Another big factor is how skilled everyone is. During regionals, a lot of matches will just be decided by gears, but at higher levels everyone will max gears and the question is who can score fuel faster (or play better defense).

[Chief Hedgehog]

In Duluth (Northern Lights and Lake Superior) I would venture a guess that most teams will not be able to climb consistently (see 2016). I would assume it will be the same for most Week 1 events.

For teams at Northern Lights I would venture a guess that the teams that can climb consistently will be: 27, 525, 876, 2175, 2502, 2512, 2823, 2883, 3026, 3130, 3313, 3883, 4607, 4624, 4656, and 5172.

It will be the gear cycles (rotors) that make the difference followed by kPa at Northern Lights.

At Lake Superior it will come down to gear cycles and defense. 2052, 1714, 1816, 5913, 3102, 3276, 4539, 4728, and a handful of others climbing consistently.

And for the Double DECCer, Northern Lights will retain the title.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by Pay Me $2

If you get 40 kPa autonomous (which can be managed by just one robot), then that would be worth 60 points on its own, which is more than enough to make up for being one rotor behind.

Bold for emphasis.

40 fuel in the high goal takes 8 seconds to process. You truly believe that a robot will be able to load 40+ balls into it's hopper, drive to a shooting spot near the boiler, and get 40 balls into the HE goal in 8 seconds?

Me thinks you have way too much optimism.


.

[George1902]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

You truly believe that a robot will be able to load 40+ balls into it's hopper, drive to a shooting spot near the boiler, and get 40 balls into the HE goal in 8 seconds?

"Limits, like fears, are often just an illusion."
-- Karthik (and also some guy that played a little basketball)

[Chris is me]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Bold for emphasis.

40 fuel in the high goal takes 8 seconds to process. You truly believe that a robot will be able to load 40+ balls into it's hopper, drive to a shooting spot near the boiler, and get 40 balls into the HE goal in 8 seconds?

Me thinks you have way too much optimism.


.

A few caveats:
1. Not all 40 balls have to be in the goal for it to start processing. You have 8 seconds to start scoring, not 8 seconds to finish scoring.

2. It's been speculated that a full goal will process balls more quickly than 5 per second.

3. Even if you get 35 balls in or whatever, it's not like this suddenly isn't worth attempting anymore.

All of that said, I don't think this is *necessary* to win in Week 1 and 2, though if you consistently do it I suspect you will seed #1.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

A few caveats:
1. Not all 40 balls have to be in the goal for it to start processing. You have 8 seconds to start scoring, not 8 seconds to finish scoring.

2. It's been speculated that a full goal will process balls more quickly than 5 per second.

3. Even if you get 35 balls in or whatever, it's not like this suddenly isn't worth attempting anymore.

All of that said, I don't think this is *necessary* to win in Week 1 and 2, though if you consistently do it I suspect you will seed #1.

+1 to all of this.

The manual says AVERAGE 5 ball/sec can't have an average if you don't have a bigger number than that.

If 1 team scored 30 fuel in Auto it is equivalent to 1 rotor being started in Auto.
Rotor scoring: 40 in tele, 60 in auto. Difference of 20 points
Fuel scoring in high goal: 3 fuel/point/KPA in tele, 1 fuel/point/KPA in auto. 30 balls in tele = 10 points/10KPA, 30 balls in auto = 30 points/30KPA or a difference of 20 points. You're also much closer to that RP than you are with the rotor.

[Rick]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

Bold for emphasis.

40 fuel in the high goal takes 8 seconds to process. You truly believe that a robot will be able to load 40+ balls into it's hopper, drive to a shooting spot near the boiler, and get 40 balls into the HE goal in 8 seconds?

Me thinks you have way too much optimism.


.

Who says you need to drive to the boiler?

[JesseK]

Originally Posted by Chris is me

3. Even if you get 35 balls in or whatever, it's not like this suddenly isn't worth attempting anymore.

Yep.

A robot that nets 20 balls consistently scored in autonomous is worth more than a robot which only sometimes gets the gear in autonomous (bot-for-bot). Tricky thing about gear bots - their max value doesn't come from playing solo.

[JohnFogarty]

Originally Posted by Rick

Who says you need to drive to the boiler?

This.

[Trevor1523]

Coming from a team that is only going to week 1 and 2 events: I think everyone that says 3 rotors and 2/3 climbs are guessing way too low. Considering that we're planning on getting about 5-6 gears in tele-op and a climb by ourselves, I think that the level of competition will be higher than anticipated.

And perhaps I am way over-estimating our abilities, as well as those of the teams that are attending our two regionals. I really hope that it's as easy as 3 rotors and 2 climbs. I don't think it will be that way though.

[Daniel_LaFleur]

Originally Posted by George1902

"Limits, like fears, are often just an illusion."
-- Karthik (and also some guy that played a little basketball)

“Happiness is just an illusion caused by the temporary absence of reality.”

Originally Posted by Chris is me

A few caveats:
1. Not all 40 balls have to be in the goal for it to start processing. You have 8 seconds to start scoring, not 8 seconds to finish scoring.

2. It's been speculated that a full goal will process balls more quickly than 5 per second.

3. Even if you get 35 balls in or whatever, it's not like this suddenly isn't worth attempting anymore.

All of that said, I don't think this is *necessary* to win in Week 1 and 2, though if you consistently do it I suspect you will seed #1.

1>You're right. Autonomous is 15 seconds, which means that you need to start scoring at 7 seconds in (at the full 5 fuel per second rate)

2> Until it's proven that the boiler CAN go faster than 5 fuel per second, I'll assume that 5 per second is MAX ... maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, but probably not.

3> I was answering a 40Kpa SINGLE ROBOT AUTONOMOUS. I didn't state that a single robot couldn't get 40Kpa (In fact I believe that may be the easiest way into the elimination rounds)

Originally Posted by EricLeifermann

+1 to all of this.

The manual says AVERAGE 5 ball/sec can't have an average if you don't have a bigger number than that.

Again, until I SEE otherwise, I'll assume (I know) that 5 fuel per second is a good MAX approximation

Originally Posted by Rick

Who says you need to drive to the boiler?

Point noted.

Although that does require you to be far more accurate as you will not catch your rebounds.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Trevor1523

Coming from a team that is only going to week 1 and 2 events: I think everyone that says 3 rotors and 2/3 climbs are guessing way too low. Considering that we're planning on getting about 5-6 gears in tele-op and a climb by ourselves, I think that the level of competition will be higher than anticipated.

And perhaps I am way over-estimating our abilities, as well as those of the teams that are attending our two regionals. I really hope that it's as easy as 3 rotors and 2 climbs. I don't think it will be that way though.

Go back and look at the data from other years, 5-6 gears is going to be elite level of play. Look at 2013 as a great example of what this game is going to be like. A cycle in Ultimate Ascent is going to be roughly equivalent of a cycle in Steamworks. I'd actually say that a cycle in Steamworks is going to be a few seconds slower as the peg is a farther drive than most team had to go to shoot frisbees in 2013. Not to mention the field vision is WAY more blocked than in 2013 as you could see through the pyramid and you can't see through the airship.

Grabbing the rope is going to be harder than people have been practicing. Teams are going to struggle the entire 30 seconds allowed and still not start their climb.

[EricLeifermann]

Originally Posted by Daniel_LaFleur

2> Until it's proven that the boiler CAN go faster than 5 fuel per second, I'll assume that 5 per second is MAX ... maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised, but probably not.

Again, until I SEE otherwise, I'll assume (I know) that 5 fuel per second is a good MAX approximation
.

FIRST was pretty cut and dry( outside of the rope definition) this year in the rule book. I don't think they would have said 5/sec average if it wasn't indeed an average and the boiler can count faster.

That being said if you plan for more than 5/sec you should go back and plan for 5/sec.

[FiM_Strategery]

With teams looking to shoot 10-15 bps with and even if you have as little as 65-70% accuracy 40 balls will be shot in 4-5 seconds.

That would give a minimum of 8 seconds or so to get to the hopper and start shooting...completely reasonable I believe.

We will just need to wait to see what Week 1 brings