Unofficial Chaos

[Andy Grady]

Just one final comment before this thread closes. I just want everyone to understand that I know that the referees have the most difficult job and were trying thier best to make the correct decision. According to the rules set forth by Battlecry staff at the begining of the day, the call that was made was correct. That is not what bothers me. What bothers me is the fact that from the begining of the day on, we all knew what was going to happen. After talking to 121 on various accounts during the day, it really did look like they were being picked on, and when it did happen, when you actually looked at the faces of the kids on the team, they were all in dismay, because they just felt the pressure the whole day, and knew it was comming. Then the result of the whole fiasco was just a complete mess, and it marred what really up until that point was an exciting and fun competition. The purpose of this thread was to warn competition organizers of the problems involving wedgebots, and to be very careful when changing any rules reguarding them, due to the fact that it can make teams feel singled out, or feel like they have been treated unfairly, which leads to the issues that fell on Battlecry.

Thank you Brandon for giving everyone the oportunity to vent out a little before closing this thread. Hopefully, if nothing else, people at the competition will understand the frustrations of the teams affected by the rulings and why we were all upset, even if our reactions should have been more gracious than they were.

Thank you,
Andy Grady

[Jeff Waegelin]

Originally posted by Amanda Morrison
Ask Andy Baker about his final DQ call last year at IRI. Andy is a very respectable, honest, and fair person, and he got stuck in a bad situation. The outcome? Andy called the game according to what the book said and what he thought was right. The call was against my former team. When we got home from IRI, the kids were mildly disgruntled about the call. Our mentor told us, "Andy Baker is an honest guy. The referee's decision was a tough one to make, and Andy called it the way he saw fit. There's nothing wrong with that. We'll just try again next year."

I think that one call is representative of the tough job that referees face, and I think Andy handled that admirably. Granted, my team did get the "benefit" from that call, but we really didn't want to win on that call any more than your alliance wanted to lose on it. Unfortunately, there are times when the referees have to make a decision that is difficult or unpopular. There are always going to be tough calls, and you just have to trust in your officials to do the right thing.

[Sean_330]

Andy really had a tough job on that one. He really made a good call in that situation. I just wanted to know what the ref that threw the flag in the first place was thinking? :D

[Pin Man]

Originally posted by Ricksta121
I also told that someone: If that ref is here next year I wont be. He ruined my battlecry.[/b]

I saw it and I agree with the call... But I don't care what happened that is going way too far... It's not your Battle Cry... He didn't "ruin" it for you... He called what he saw and I am glad he called it because it was a well thought out call... It wasn't easy to make even for me but after watching the replay I agreed...

[Ken Leung]

Before Brandon close down this thread, I have a little request to make.

I would like to ask everyone, including the readers of this thread, to take a step back, inhale and exhale one big breath, and look at the bigger picture. I would like you to think: "Why am I doing this in the first place". (well, please don't actually reply to the question in this thread because there are countless similar ones in General)

What are you spending so much time in this program for? To argue with each other to the very end, and stare at each other in rage? No, I really don't think so, or at least I hope not.

Along with the spirit of Gracious Professionalism, FIRST and the rest of us are trying to teach kids that violence isn't a way to solve problems. Just look at how we've always been opposing to Battle Bot and how it's geared toward destroying of other machines. That is why refs have to worry about robots tipping each other over, especially with the ramp this year.

The game itself conveys messages to the participants and spectators, messages that demonstrate the ideals in FIRST. It does no good when all the spectators see are robots pushing each other over all the time. Similarly, it does no good when all the students see are them being DQed all the time. And it ESPECIALLY does no good, when we argue each other to death about what happened in the past, and only listening no one but yourself and those that agree with your opinion.

I wasn't at this event to witness all these. It tears me apart when I hear both side convinced they are right and the others are wrong. Makes me wonder… What have we, whether as mentors, or FIRST officials, or referees, or participants in the competition, done (or haven't done) that let this happen in the first place? What did we do wrong that made the spectators boo the call of the referees, and the students angry and left early at the event, and generally everyone else unhappy of what took place in last weekend? Why did an event that's supposed to be fun and inspiring to everyone turn into an arguing war on an online forum?

I don't suppose we will ever find the answer to those questions... Maybe we will never get those answers beyond the form of "it was horrible because such and such said this and that to me". Maybe we will be lucky and get a few silent answers in the form of "maybe it was my bad because I wasn't considerate enough". Maybe. I don't really want to hear those answers posted in this thread, or any other thread. I just want everyone to hear their own answers inside their heart, and actually believe the answer is genuine.

Mean while, I ask that FIRST work on their game, and the rules, such that similar events will never take place again. Whether be it changes to the rules like "there will be no wedge shape components on the robots other than for the purpose of manipulating the scoring object", or "tipping of opponent robots will not be allowed, be it accidental or incidental", or "build a robust robot and be prepared that your robot will be tipped over every second in the game". I dunno. I don't want to argue which one of those is right and which one is wrong, neither. I want people to think about it, and that's it. No more pointing fingers, no more quoting, and no more yelling.


At the end of this post, I just want to share a thought that's been lingering my mind in the past few weeks after watching a very inspiring show twice. It goes something like this:

"As human beings we should concentrate in taking care of each other, and the future generation after our time. We are now capable of feeding everyone in the planet and generating enough energy to use, and yet, every day hundreds of thousands of human died of hunger, and every day we worry about the potential dangers that could wipe us out in a mere 15 seconds. We no longer need to fight with each other just because there isn’t enough to go around. With advancement of technology, we can now do more with less, giving humanity a chance to evolving into something higher, away from what’s been happening the past thousands and thousands of years, away from the conflicts when people used to believe that the only way to satisfy their needs is by robbing others of that very same satisfaction.

In time, it wouldn’t matter how much we have at the moment. What’s going to matters is that we keep on going from generation to generation, and evolving to be better and better every step of the way.

When you eat cereal yesterday, the cereal becomes part of you today, and tomorrow it turn into forms of your body you will be abandoning behind. That cereal isn’t you, nor the skin or the hair you lose every day. When you lose 20 pounds last month, those 20 pound isn’t you. You are a pattern of integrity that exists because of the universe exist. Your mind exists only because your body is supporting it, but your mind is very different from your body. And one day, when your body fails to continue supporting your mind, you will disappear unless you are able to pass along a part of your mind onto future generations, a mind that’s built of experiences based on the all years you lived.”

I am sorry if that “thought” is a bit long, and boring, and unorganized. I wish one day you would have the same experience I had with life and everything in it to understand what I mean, but unfortunately I can only tell you, in my own word, what I think about, and what I’ve experienced. Sorry for wasting your time.

[Brandon Martus]

Originally posted by Brandon Martus
This thread goes for 4 more hours, and then it closes.
Hope you all get a chance to get your last word(s) in.

Time's up. If you really feel the need to talk about this again, wait 4-5 days at least to start a new thread. All other threads regarding this particular ruling will probably be locked/deleted.

[edit]I opened it back up for Ken. He always has something positive and thought-provoking to add to the conversation, and I wanted everyone to be able to read it.[/edit]