Go to Post Are you confused yet? - Andy Grady [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Electrical
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
View Poll Results: Will solar power become a possible power source in the future for FIRST teams?
Yes 6 15.38%
No 25 64.10%
Not Sure 4 10.26%
Can't be done 4 10.26%
Voters: 39. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 09:24
dddriveman's Avatar
dddriveman dddriveman is offline
Former Driver 1038, 979
AKA: Driveman
FRC #1038 (Thunderhawks)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 142
dddriveman has a spectacular aura aboutdddriveman has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to dddriveman
Solar Power?

Does any one think that it is possible to run a robot off of solor power and, if it is will first use it in the future as a power sorce?
__________________
"I'm sorry, after all he is just a wookie!"
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 10:38
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,798
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
NO and NO!
The lighting in most venues don't give you much in the way of available power (and they vary greatly in color output) and in winter in most parts of the US you won't be able to run the competition outside where it might work. Even using solar to recharge the batteries would require a large array to get any significant current vs. time for the batteries we use. (remember 4- 6 amps for several hours per battery depending on discharge state)
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 10:42
Pin Man Pin Man is offline
How you doin'?!
AKA: Dave Kingsley
FRC #0088 (TJ˛)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Bridgewater, Massachusetts
Posts: 1,003
Pin Man has a spectacular aura aboutPin Man has a spectacular aura aboutPin Man has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to Pin Man
Quote:
Originally posted by Al Skierkiewicz
NO and NO!
The lighting in most venues don't give you much in the way of available power (and they vary greatly in color output) and in winter in most parts of the US you won't be able to run the competition outside where it might work. Even using solar to recharge the batteries would require a large array to get any significant current vs. time for the batteries we use. (remember 4- 6 amps for several hours per battery depending on discharge state)
I agree...
__________________
AIM SN: ThursdayCambria

Attending Bridgewater State College

Shirt collection- 25, 47, 69, 140, 173, 191, 213, 303, 365, 461, 836, (2)862, 885, 888, 1027, (2)1073, 1156.
Shirts in the works-
Shirt Wish List- 45, 48, 61, 67, 84, 86, 95, 103, 111, 126, 175, 190, 233, 236, 716, 870, 871, 1114, and any other team basically
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 11:14
Adam Y.'s Avatar
Adam Y. Adam Y. is offline
Adam Y.
no team (?????)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 1,979
Adam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Adam Y.
Quote:
Does any one think that it is possible to run a robot off of solor power and, if it is will first use it in the future as a power sorce?
Yes it is possible and no First will not use it as a future power source. It is just too annoying to use in a bigger robot. Unless you want to see robots moving at a slow rate then I solar power is not the way to go.
__________________
If either a public officer or any one else saw a person attempting to cross a bridge which had been ascertained to be unsafe, and there were no time to warn him of his danger, they might seize him and turn him back without any real infringement of his liberty; for liberty consists in doing what one desires, and he does not desire to fall into the river. -Mill
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 13:04
Jnadke Jnadke is offline
Go Badgers!
#0093
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 775
Jnadke is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Jnadke Send a message via AIM to Jnadke Send a message via Yahoo to Jnadke
I think we'll sooner see fuel cell powered robots than solar powered one's... solar technology just doesn't have a large enough energy density yet...

Fuel cells are still a few years coming... they have methanol powered fuel cells approaching 35% efficiencies, but they can't produce large amounts of current.
__________________
The best moments of our lives fall in two categories: those that did happen and those that did not.
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 13:46
dddriveman's Avatar
dddriveman dddriveman is offline
Former Driver 1038, 979
AKA: Driveman
FRC #1038 (Thunderhawks)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Dayton
Posts: 142
dddriveman has a spectacular aura aboutdddriveman has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to dddriveman
Thanks for the replies. I was just wandering if it was possible.
__________________
"I'm sorry, after all he is just a wookie!"
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 13:55
Adam Y.'s Avatar
Adam Y. Adam Y. is offline
Adam Y.
no team (?????)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 1,979
Adam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Adam Y.
Quote:
Fuel cells are still a few years coming... they have methanol powered fuel cells approaching 35% efficiencies, but they can't produce large amounts of current.
Errr.... You do know that fuel cell technology is all ready being used in cars today. In fact they are being leased in Japan and California for government use.
__________________
If either a public officer or any one else saw a person attempting to cross a bridge which had been ascertained to be unsafe, and there were no time to warn him of his danger, they might seize him and turn him back without any real infringement of his liberty; for liberty consists in doing what one desires, and he does not desire to fall into the river. -Mill
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 14:00
Beth Sweet's Avatar
Beth Sweet Beth Sweet is offline
is getting lost in her new home
FRC #0116 (Epsilon Delta), #1504 (alum), #67 (alum)
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 1,938
Beth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond reputeBeth Sweet has a reputation beyond repute
i think that a solar powered game would be an interesting idea. mind u we'd have to make sure we always had good weather, or maybe that would be part of the challenge... solar power certainly presents an interesting idea of how we can work with science and technology though. gives u something to think about...
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 14:07
Adam Y.'s Avatar
Adam Y. Adam Y. is offline
Adam Y.
no team (?????)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 1,979
Adam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Adam Y.
Quote:
i think that a solar powered game would be an interesting idea. mind u we'd have to make sure we always had good weather, or maybe that would be part of the challenge... solar power certainly presents an interesting idea of how we can work with science and technology though. gives u something to think about...
It is possible but really just not fun to watch. All you would need is
a)A bunch of sollar cells
b) Loads of capicators
c)A sollar engine or some device that can dump the energy from the capicators when they are full
It would be very boring though at such a large scale. Try searching for Beam robotics for more information.
__________________
If either a public officer or any one else saw a person attempting to cross a bridge which had been ascertained to be unsafe, and there were no time to warn him of his danger, they might seize him and turn him back without any real infringement of his liberty; for liberty consists in doing what one desires, and he does not desire to fall into the river. -Mill
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 14:19
Unsung FIRST Hero
Al Skierkiewicz Al Skierkiewicz is offline
Broadcast Eng/Chief Robot Inspector
AKA: Big Al WFFA 2005
FRC #0111 (WildStang)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Wheeling, IL
Posts: 10,798
Al Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond reputeAl Skierkiewicz has a reputation beyond repute
Quote:
Originally posted by Adam Y.
It is possible but really just not fun to watch. All you would need is
b) Loads of capacitors
!?!?

I think you mean batteries. Capacitors can't make the current density needed. If anyone is interested in yet another competition (solar that is!) try here...
http://www.formulasun.org/asc/
For the American Solar Challenge.
__________________
Good Luck All. Learn something new, everyday!
Al
WB9UVJ
www.wildstang.org
________________________
Storming the Tower since 1996.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 14:30
Jnadke Jnadke is offline
Go Badgers!
#0093
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Appleton, WI
Posts: 775
Jnadke is on a distinguished road
Send a message via ICQ to Jnadke Send a message via AIM to Jnadke Send a message via Yahoo to Jnadke
Quote:
Originally posted by Adam Y.
Errr.... You do know that fuel cell technology is all ready being used in cars today. In fact they are being leased in Japan and California for government use.
Hydrogen-based fuel cells are far too bulky with their storage systems. Smaller fuel cells will be needed for anything decently portable for use on a robot.
__________________
The best moments of our lives fall in two categories: those that did happen and those that did not.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 14:56
jon jon is offline
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Orlando, FL
Posts: 192
jon has a spectacular aura aboutjon has a spectacular aura aboutjon has a spectacular aura about
I've been looking into using Direct Methanol Fuel Cells for a personal project of mine. Size isn't much of a problem. There are a few companies developing some to replace laptop batteries, with longer running time and a quicker recharge. Though currently, they're bigger than most laptop batteries.

Of course, this technology is still pretty new, as far as consumer devices go, and is still quite expensive, so I don't see them as a power source for FIRST robots in the near future. Still though, it's interesting technology.

Anybody have any information on some cheap DMFCs to try out?
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 16:19
Gadget470's Avatar
Gadget470 Gadget470 is offline
A Fire Outside
AKA: Brandon Joerges
no team (Alpha Omega)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Madison Heights, MI
Posts: 1,000
Gadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the roughGadget470 is a jewel in the rough
Send a message via ICQ to Gadget470 Send a message via AIM to Gadget470
Quote:
Originally posted by Adam Y.
Errr.... You do know that fuel cell technology is all ready being used in cars today. In fact they are being leased in Japan and California for government use.
Perhaps he should have said "Fuel cells for public use" are a few years away.

Japan and California's governments won't really help the FIRST competition soon.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 16:58
Not2B's Avatar
Not2B Not2B is offline
Registered User
AKA: Brian Graham
FRC #0862 (Lightning Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Farmington Hills, Mi
Posts: 401
Not2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond reputeNot2B has a reputation beyond repute
Mmm... solar

It seems to me people fear solar power...

Yes you can make a robot run on solar power. Like the ones I built sitting on my kitchen table. Check some BEAM robots out.

No I don't think first will use them. Low power density. Plus, the lights would have to be the correct wavelenght for the cells selected, which would also get expensive. (Different types of cells work better around different wavelengths)

But have faith people.... The energy from the sun at 12:00 noon in Arizona in July can reach 1000 W/m^2. (Here in detroit on a sunny day in the summer it's about 550 W/m^2)

Depending on the type of photovoltaic cell you use, you can get different efficiency. Most crappy terrestial cells give you around 8-12%. But there have been "special" (read: expensive) cells that have gone over 40% efficiency.

by the way... just for fun...
36" by 30" = .70m^2
At 10% eff off of 1000 W/m^2 you would get roughly 70 W.
Of course, everyone would have to wear sunscreen, sun glasses, hats, long pants and sleaves for fear of burning... And we would have to watch the robots for melting...

Oh..... one last thing.... you don't need batteries to store energy. Capacites have come a long way, baby. The Beam bots use regular caps, hybrid electrics can and do use ultra-caps and caps made with aerogels.

Sorry - I've spent some time with my friend, the photovoltaic.
__________________
Brian Graham
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-06-2003, 17:06
Adam Y.'s Avatar
Adam Y. Adam Y. is offline
Adam Y.
no team (?????)
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Long Island
Posts: 1,979
Adam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to beholdAdam Y. is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Adam Y.
Quote:
Perhaps he should have said "Fuel cells for public use" are a few years away.
I remeber a place where you could obtain fuel cells but I do not remeber the website.
__________________
If either a public officer or any one else saw a person attempting to cross a bridge which had been ascertained to be unsafe, and there were no time to warn him of his danger, they might seize him and turn him back without any real infringement of his liberty; for liberty consists in doing what one desires, and he does not desire to fall into the river. -Mill
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
power to the pits Ken Leung Off-Season Events 12 11-05-2003 22:48
URGENT!! Need OI power brick specs for 7AM demo tomorrow!!! kmcclary Electrical 8 10-10-2002 10:56
Prepare to see the power unleashed! archiver 2001 0 24-06-2002 01:36
power of globe motor with gear box? Ken Leung Motors 5 21-11-2001 13:43
Max mechanical power of motors, how is it useful? Ken Leung Motors 1 09-11-2001 14:15


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:16.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi