OCCRA
Go to Post I'm all for an aggressive game, but lets not crack each others lexan. - Molten [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Reply
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-22-2018, 04:26 PM
MrRoboSteve MrRoboSteve is offline
Mentor
AKA: Steve Peterson
FRC #3081 (Kennedy RoboEagles)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Bloomington, MN
Posts: 803
MrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond repute
Angry Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Last year I coordinated the Driver Station Best Practices paper, and it's time for an update. Please post any suggestions you have for the document in this thread.

Your focus should be on the Driver Station, and what the minimum practical requirements are for a machine dedicated for that use.

Just like last year, if your suggestion is adopted, you become a contributor and get credit in the document.
__________________
2019 ?
2011 - present FRC 3081 Kennedy RoboEagles mentor
2013 - present event volunteer at[list truncated]
http://twitter.com/MrRoboSteve www.linkedin.com/in/speterson I am hiring for my team at Microsoft
Reply With Quote
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-22-2018, 09:12 PM
Maxcr1's Avatar
Maxcr1 Maxcr1 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Max D "Code Boy"
FRC #2169 (KING TeC)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Savage, MN
Posts: 127
Maxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant futureMaxcr1 has a brilliant future
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by piersklein View Post
Please do not tether to your robot via USB or via ethernet connected directly to the roboRIO. The best way to tether to the robot is to do so by tethering to the radio. You should only use the USB ports on the roboRIO to flash the roboRIO or update the firmware.
Plugging your computer directly into the RoboRIO over USB is just asking for trouble. Always run through your radio to avoid causing DHCP wierdness, and as an added bonus, diagnose connection issues before you even step on the field.
__________________
Max DeVos | Programmer | KING TeC 2169

Reply With Quote
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-23-2018, 09:13 AM
cpapplefamily's Avatar
cpapplefamily cpapplefamily is offline
Registered User
FRC #3244 (Granite City Gearheads)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 768
cpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to behold
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

We commonly connected our programming laptop through USB to deploy code changes and reset a few functions on the robot that were not easily completed with the robot powered off using Shuffleboard buttons. Part of that reasoning was both ethernet ports on the radio are utilized. Truthfully these ports are not built for the hi frequency of plug-unplug cycles and we took extra precautions to secure these connections. Even the USB port could start to fail when to many rushed plug in cycles accumulate but at least you won't likely drop comms in a match due to a USB port. That is why it is also a good idea to use a USB brakeout cable to protect the $400 investment.

We have observed VERY STRANGE behaviors if we unplug a joystick from our driverstation to tether USB to the robot. When the robot is enabled the robot code seen random buttons pressed from the no longer connected joystick(was a launchpad in this case)
__________________
It makes sense in my mind.

Jumpstart Training Central MN



Reply With Quote
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-23-2018, 09:30 AM
AriMB's Avatar
AriMB AriMB is offline
The Philadelphian emigrant
AKA: Ari Meles-Braverman
FRC #5987 (Galaxia)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Rookie Year: 2012
Location: Haifa, Israel
Posts: 1,827
AriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond reputeAriMB has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpapplefamily View Post
We have observed VERY STRANGE behaviors if we unplug a joystick from our driverstation to tether USB to the robot. When the robot is enabled the robot code seen random buttons pressed from the no longer connected joystick(was a launchpad in this case)
If you unplug a joystick while the robot is enabled, the driver station should automatically disable the robot. Was this not what you experienced?
__________________
Studying MechE at the Technion - Israel Institute of Technology
2017-present: FIRST Israel CSA/FTAA
2017-present: FRC 5987 Technical Mentor 18isr2 18isr4 18isrcmp 18carv
2012-2016: FRC 423 Member 15njtab 15padre 16paphi
Reply With Quote
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-23-2018, 01:45 PM
cpapplefamily's Avatar
cpapplefamily cpapplefamily is offline
Registered User
FRC #3244 (Granite City Gearheads)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: May 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 768
cpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to beholdcpapplefamily is a splendid one to behold
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by AriMB View Post
If you unplug a joystick while the robot is enabled, the driver station should automatically disable the robot. Was this not what you experienced?
Sorry i was not clear.

While in the pits we wished to tether to the robot using the USB. Our Driverstation only has 3 USB ports and is using all three. Since the action we wanted to test is not on the Launchpad we used that port to USB tether. When we enable the robot a command that is mapped to a launchpad button executed.

When we must test item's like vision we temporarily this year added a network switch. During matches we removed the switch(one less item that could fail)

We had only one dropped connection this year week zero
__________________
It makes sense in my mind.

Jumpstart Training Central MN



Reply With Quote
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-23-2018, 09:05 PM
rlounds's Avatar
rlounds rlounds is offline
The guy with the red pants
AKA: Ryan Lounds
FRC #1310 (Runnymede Robotics)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Toronto
Posts: 38
rlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud of
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

-USB to ethernet adapters can be tricky sometimes, in FIRST Canada we recommend using this one from Amazon Basics. Teams should make sure to bring their own, as the ones your fields may or may not have have likely had some wear and tear.

-Sometimes when you tether to your robot at competitions, IPs may not reconfigure automatically. When you get to the field your robot may not connect, the solution we've found works for us up north here is releasing and renewing the IP

-Try and get a driver station that has enough USB ports for you, USB hubs create more points of failure.

-Replace the laptop you get in the KOP, as they get updated they slow down, too often this year at the events I FTAA'd we had to wait for teams not because they weren't ready, but because their laptop wasn't booted yet.

-You cannot upload code through the field network. Don't try it.

-Close other applications that connect to the robot that you don't need when you get to the field (ex. webcam configurations, programming softwares, etc.)

Steve, if you're looking to add more troubleshooting related items to the paper, send me a message and I'll gladly send you some stuff.
__________________
Head of Design and Build Leader for FRC Team 1310, Runnymede Robotics
Team Admin & Mechanical for Ri3D Team Ontario
Ex-Head of Outreach & Driveteam for FRC Team 865, Warp7
2018 Ontario Dean's List Finalist
Reply With Quote
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-23-2018, 09:14 PM
juju_beans's Avatar
juju_beans juju_beans is offline
Registered User
FRC #3647 (Millennium Falcons)
Team Role: CAD
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: California
Posts: 116
juju_beans is a splendid one to beholdjuju_beans is a splendid one to beholdjuju_beans is a splendid one to beholdjuju_beans is a splendid one to beholdjuju_beans is a splendid one to beholdjuju_beans is a splendid one to beholdjuju_beans is a splendid one to behold
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlounds View Post
-You cannot upload code through the field network. Don't try it.
Interestingly enough we were actually able to download code through the field network using VS Code at our last offseason event (Battleship Blast). I'm not sure if this is something with the FMS at this particular event or if it has something to do with the 2019 Beta.
__________________
It worked in the CAD!

CNC Router and HSMWorks Series
Reply With Quote
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-23-2018, 09:16 PM
messer5740's Avatar
messer5740 messer5740 is offline
Registered User
AKA: Matt Esser
FRC #5740 (Trojanators)
Team Role: College Student
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Columbus, OH-IO
Posts: 457
messer5740 has much to be proud ofmesser5740 has much to be proud ofmesser5740 has much to be proud ofmesser5740 has much to be proud ofmesser5740 has much to be proud ofmesser5740 has much to be proud ofmesser5740 has much to be proud ofmesser5740 has much to be proud ofmesser5740 has much to be proud of
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

DO NOT SWITCH CONTROLLER PORTS AFTER YOU PLUG IN YOUR PC
__________________


A good driver is always better than a good robot.

2015: Winner of the Rookie Inspiration Award
2016: Quarterfinalists at Greater Pittsburgh Regional and Buckeye Regional
2017: Dean's List Finalist
2018: Engineering Inspiration Award; Quarterfinalists at the Miami Valley and Greater Pittsburgh Regional
Reply With Quote
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-23-2018, 09:24 PM
tjf tjf is online now
Registered User
AKA: Tim Flynn
FRC #1257 (Parallel Universe), #1228 (RoboTribe)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Union County
Posts: 429
tjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond reputetjf has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju_beans View Post
Interestingly enough we were actually able to download code through the field network using VS Code at our last offseason event (Battleship Blast). I'm not sure if this is something with the FMS at this particular event or if it has something to do with the 2019 Beta.
Offseason events don't always enforce the firewall rules that block it. If you read the FMS whitepaper the port that deploy uses is implicitly blocked. If you were to change the port though to a team-acceptable one...it'd work though.
__________________

1257 (2016) - Student
1257 (2017-Present) - Overactive Alumnus | 1228 (2017-Present) - I do stuff
KD2KRT
Papers: Encyclopedia Robotica v2 | An FRC Anthology
Reply With Quote
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-24-2018, 02:20 AM
Nuttyman54's Avatar
Nuttyman54 Nuttyman54 is offline
Mentor, Tactician
AKA: Evan "Numbers" Morrison
FRC #5803 (Apex Robotics) and FRC #0971 (Spartan Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Seattle, WA/Mountain View, CA
Posts: 2,313
Nuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond reputeNuttyman54 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxcr1 View Post
Plugging your computer directly into the RoboRIO over USB is just asking for trouble. Always run through your radio to avoid causing DHCP wierdness, and as an added bonus, diagnose connection issues before you even step on the field.
Pardon my ignorance, I'm not a network guy, but what're the issues associated with tethering via USB? We did that this year and didn't have any problems that I know of, but we might've just dodged a bullet. It was mighty convenient.
__________________
Reply With Quote
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-24-2018, 02:23 AM
Jaci's Avatar
Jaci Jaci is offline
http://imjac.in/ta/name
AKA: Jaci R Brunning
FRC #5333 (Can't C#) #5663 (Ground Control) | (OpenRIO, FRC West Aus)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 633
Jaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond reputeJaci has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju_beans View Post
Interestingly enough we were actually able to download code through the field network using VS Code at our last offseason event (Battleship Blast). I'm not sure if this is something with the FMS at this particular event or if it has something to do with the 2019 Beta.
This is because you were connected to an offseason FMS. In 2019, GradleRIO will also put out a verbose warning if you try to deploy on the field: "You can't deploy code while connected to the FMS! Ask the FTA to allow you to tether your robot."
__________________

Curtin FRC (5333+5663) : Head Mentor
WPILib : Developer

Website | Github
jaci.brunning@gmail.com
Reply With Quote
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-24-2018, 10:31 PM
rlounds's Avatar
rlounds rlounds is offline
The guy with the red pants
AKA: Ryan Lounds
FRC #1310 (Runnymede Robotics)
Team Role: Mechanical
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Rookie Year: 2015
Location: Toronto
Posts: 38
rlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud ofrlounds has much to be proud of
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by juju_beans View Post
Interestingly enough we were actually able to download code through the field network using VS Code at our last offseason event (Battleship Blast). I'm not sure if this is something with the FMS at this particular event or if it has something to do with the 2019 Beta.
Interesting, if the event was running the Off-Season (Lite) version of FMS that might be why it allowed you to do that. At one of the events I FTAA'd at (ONT District - McMaster U Event) a team tried to deploy code through the field and when the FMS denied it it crashed their laptop (to be fair it was one of the small netbooks from the KOP), thankfully we were slightly ahead of schedule at that point and had time for them to tether and fix their code.

The second moral of that story is it doesn't take a lot to crash one of the KOP laptops from what I've seen.
__________________
Head of Design and Build Leader for FRC Team 1310, Runnymede Robotics
Team Admin & Mechanical for Ri3D Team Ontario
Ex-Head of Outreach & Driveteam for FRC Team 865, Warp7
2018 Ontario Dean's List Finalist
Reply With Quote
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-25-2018, 12:56 PM
JesseK's Avatar
JesseK JesseK is offline
Expert Flybot Crasher
FRC #1885 (ILITE)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Rookie Year: 2005
Location: Reston, VA
Posts: 4,229
JesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond reputeJesseK has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Bah, nvm. We set the power settings at the competition rather than before the competition. Looks like the doc has laptop power settings covered in the pre-competition section.
__________________
Drive Coach, 1885 (2007-present)

1885: YouTube | CAD Library

Last edited by JesseK : 09-25-2018 at 12:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-26-2018, 10:33 PM
MrRoboSteve MrRoboSteve is offline
Mentor
AKA: Steve Peterson
FRC #3081 (Kennedy RoboEagles)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Rookie Year: 2011
Location: Bloomington, MN
Posts: 803
MrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond reputeMrRoboSteve has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

Quote:
Originally Posted by rlounds View Post
Steve, if you're looking to add more troubleshooting related items to the paper, send me a message and I'll gladly send you some stuff.
Ryan -- thanks for the offer. I'm trying to keep the whitepaper focused on prep and setup, so that it stays a reasonable length. Troubleshooting is covered pretty exhaustively in the FTAA guide to field connectivity. I'm wary about recommending >2 USB ports, because it really starts to narrow the set of machines available. I will put in a comment about fastening down the USB hub.

Quote:
Originally Posted by messer5740 View Post
DO NOT SWITCH CONTROLLER PORTS AFTER YOU PLUG IN YOUR PC
Accepted.
__________________
2019 ?
2011 - present FRC 3081 Kennedy RoboEagles mentor
2013 - present event volunteer at[list truncated]
http://twitter.com/MrRoboSteve www.linkedin.com/in/speterson I am hiring for my team at Microsoft
Reply With Quote
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 09-28-2018, 08:29 AM
Donkus's Avatar
Donkus Donkus is offline
Registered User
FRC #2383 (The Ninjineers)
Team Role: Driver
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Rookie Year: 2016
Location: Florida
Posts: 9
Donkus is an unknown quantity at this point
Re: Call for updates - Driver Station Best Practices

make sure when you interact with the robot through a browser that it is internet explorer. other browsers like chrome and Microsoft edge will not work properly and pose errors. also make sure you disable the firewall in the driver station computer as it sometimes causes errors in driver station
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:55 PM.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi