Will your team behave badly this year?

[Kris Verdeyen]

Many of the people posting in this thread are under the impression that there will be a breakdown in the FIRST unwritten code of conduct this year, due to a number of factors:

1. The rough style of play encouraged by FIRST.
2. The lack of a three day rebuilding period after regionals,
and
3. The requirement that some teams have to win at regionals in order to get to nationals.

Most of the people posting, though, woudn't dream of doing these things themselves. Would you?

The question I'm asking is: Do you think that YOUR team, not someone else's, will do the things listed?

1. Build parts between comps because our robot was damaged by a malevolent team, and we won't otherwise be able to compete.
2. Be a malevolent team and attempt to damage other team's robots through legal or illegal interaction
3. Refuse to help teams that you could help because they might take your place at nationals.
4. Follow the rules, and remember the spirit of FIRST.

[Bill Gold]

My team will do ABSOLUTELY nothing illegal this year. We will also try our best to help any team in need. I also believe that it is unhealthy (from a team viewpoint) to nonchalantly talk about...

1.) The possible ways to break rules (spare parts between competitions, etc.)
2.) Refusing to help another team in need just because you might think they could "take your place at Nats"

First of all... I'm flabergasted when I see people from teams complaining about not being able to machine parts between Regional events. I have a few questions. Why can't you machine spare parts in the 6 week build period? My team is a relatively low budget team ($12,000 is an over-estimate), and we are making spare parts. I saw a team's yearbook page from last year... their budget was $80,000+. I think I've asked this before, but I'll ask it again. Can someone from a team with a budget of over $30,000 tell me what happens with all that money? I just can't see how any team with that much money couldn't build spare parts. If anyone should be complaining, it oughta be all of the rookie/low budget teams who either couldn't afford or didn't realize that spare parts are going to be necessary with a rule like this. They're the ones getting screwed by this rule.

Secondly... I sincerely hope no one here is going to refuse to help a team in need of assistance. There is no reward greater than to recieve a "thank you" and know that you helped another team compete. By helping a broken team, you help brighten the experience of that team. Think about how you'd feel if you needed assistance from another team.

I'm kinda tired right now.. so I'll re-read this post tomorrow to see if I came off like a jerk.

But I think that's my $0.02

[Kris Verdeyen]

You don't come off like a jerk, Bill. My point is that most (if not all) of the teams feel the way that you do, but I have read many posts putting forward the viewpoint that other teams don't. I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but I was wondering if I was wrong to do so. So far, the poll agrees with me.

[Matt Reiland]

Our team has a budget of over $40 thousand but MOST of that money goes travel for the students. I guess our team has a major problem fundraising in that respect. The robot itself only gets about $9000-$10000 which is gone very fast. Time is just as much a factor. We have made spares of everthing we can but it is hard to move a First milling part ahead of a 'real' work project

[Warren Boudreau]

$9000 to $10000 for your robot? If we can squeeze $5000 out of the budget for the bot, we're doing good.

That said. Our team is a definite none of the above. Two years ago (the first really agressive year) I had a rule for the driver. If he broke someones bot due to overagressive play, he had to go and help fix it. I don't know how the other teams felt, but it was the least we could do. This year, we will do the same.

As far as not helping another team? There is nothing better than helping out a team that has a problem that you have already solved. Or giving/loaning parts that are needed. That's what this is all about.

See you in the pits.

[Wetzel]

Originally posted by Warren Boudreau

...

That said. Our team is a definite none of the above. Two years ago (the first really agressive year) I had a rule for the driver. If he broke someones bot due to overagressive play, he had to go and help fix it. I don't know how the other teams felt, but it was the least we could do. This year, we will do the same.

...

I like that. Will mention it to our team captain and see what he thinks. We have a $35,00 or so budget, and most of it goes to travel. We are sending 35 or so students this year to Florida, and it is mostly paid for out of the team budget.
Definatly none of the above for Team 116.

[meaubry]

Thought I'd wait till a view votes were cast to join in here. To me, what looked like an attempt to show how wrong the worry warts were - has thus far backfired. Between this poll and the other one related to when team swill build parts, they show me that there are indeed about 15-20 % of the teams that are gonna break the rules if it means not competing, and even more disturbing almost 10 % have stated intentions of purposeful decapacitating the opponents. I will ignore the Not gonna help anyone, due to it always being a choice. We help anyone when we can, but do not expect everyone to be able too - for many reasons. I'll just monitor the results of these 2 polls a bit longer - but to me (although it's not the end of FIRST) it definately signals rough water ahead. Take care everyone, build strong, and be prepared - but play nice!

[Kris Verdeyen]

Originally posted by Warren Boudreau
If he broke someones bot due to overagressive play, he had to go and help fix it.

As far as not helping another team? There is nothing better than helping out a team that has a problem that you have already solved. Or giving/loaning parts that are needed. That's what this is all about.

This is brilliant! This is truly what FIRST is all about.

Originally posted by meaubry
... an attempt to show how wrong the worry warts were - has thus far backfired...

It really has - I did not expect to see these kinds of numbers in the second and third bins. The first bin doesn't really suprise me, at least based upon the previous poll.

Originally posted by meaubry

...almost 10 % have stated intentions of purposeful decapacitating the opponents.

This is what really bothers me. Five individuals who think that destroying another team's robot is the way to go.

How about a post, guys? Let us know what's on your mind as you contemplate this strategy. Playing rough is one thing, but purposefully damaging another robot is something else entirely. Please post to let us know that you're serious, and to give us a chance to convince you otherwise.

[EStokely]

Here is yet another problem, but its connected to the winning the regional to get to national.

Throwing a match.
I can see being in 8th place with 1 or 2 matches to go.
Seed #1 "really" wants us as a partner. Do we screw over our partner for a match to place 9th?
I can't answer what we would do (not honestly) until the situation presents itself. I want to believe we would do our best always and not throw a match to further our own carreer. And yet winning is really part of a competition. So pairing with seed #1......

I hope the judges watch the BattleBot mentality VERY closely. That will drive me out of FIRST faster than almost anything else. Allowing deliberate destruction. Gracious Profesionalism goes just so far. A few DQ's will help this game a lot more than some *spirited* goal grabbing.

And for teh record we build everything in pairs from teh start. Some parts in threes and fours. So I know we're good to not cheat on building. But we could pull an all nighter on thursday of the regional if we needed to.

Less than 2 weeks. On the better side of that about 30% left..Hell I've driven awful far on 30% of a tank on my bike :-)

Later all.
Eric Stokely
team 360

[James Crivellone]

Originally posted by EStokely
Here is yet another problem, but its connected to the winning the regional to get to national.

Throwing a match.
I can see being in 8th place with 1 or 2 matches to go.
Seed #1 "really" wants us as a partner. Do we screw over our partner for a match to place 9th?
I can't answer what we would do (not honestly) until the situation presents itself. I want to believe we would do our best always and not throw a match to further our own carreer. And yet winning is really part of a competition. So pairing with seed #1......

I hope the judges watch the BattleBot mentality VERY closely. That will drive me out of FIRST faster than almost anything else. Allowing deliberate destruction. Gracious Profesionalism goes just so far. A few DQ's will help this game a lot more than some *spirited* goal grabbing.

And for teh record we build everything in pairs from teh start. Some parts in threes and fours. So I know we're good to not cheat on building. But we could pull an all nighter on thursday of the regional if we needed to.

Less than 2 weeks. On the better side of that about 30% left..Hell I've driven awful far on 30% of a tank on my bike :-)

Later all.
Eric Stokely
team 360

Your posting again? cool

[AdamT]

Um, if you're 8th, 1st can pick you. But I understand what you're saying.

It's like the teams who get in there and realize there's no way for them to win, so they get rid of ALL their points to screw over the other team. We had some trouble with that...

[Jason Morrella]

Adam,

I know in 1999 or 2000 the seeded teams could pick each other, but not last year. My interpretation of the of rules is that the seeded teams (top 8 at the regionals) can NOT pick each other (similar to last year except some were automatically paired together) - which I think is the scruples question Eric was referring to.
If there was an update I missed or if I just misread the alliance picking section, let me know. Glad you brought it up - anyone else now the official rule on this, just so no one is surprised the first week of regionals?
Good luck to everyone in week 5 - here's to hearing about the first "steps" (running, working robots) of MANY, MANY teams this week.

Jason

[Joe Ross]

Originally posted by Jason Morrella
Adam,

I know in 1999 or 2000 the seeded teams could pick each other, but not last year. My interpretation of the of rules is that the seeded teams (top 8 at the regionals) can NOT pick each other (similar to last year except some were automatically paired together) - which I think is the scruples question Eric was referring to.

In '99, seeded teams could not choose each other, and in 2000 they could. There was a large uproar on CD about the rule change and how there would be too many "super alliances", with the #1 and #2 seed. This never materialized.

Rule T7 is the one that covers this issue this year. I read it as saying that a top seeded team could choose another top 8.

[Wayne Doenges]

Here is something else to consider. The robot you break this round may be your alliance partner a few rounds later. If you damage an opponent robot in such a way that it can't be easily fixed soon, if at all, how far do you think you will get playing the game alone. I was told that a few years back this was the rule. FIRST may allow a broken robot to be placed in it's scoring zone so you get at least 10 points for it. But what keeps it from being bot-knapped? Answer....NOTHING!
So keep this in the back of your mind when you go charging at, or grabbing, another bot.

*throws $.02 into kitty*

Wayne Doenges

[Mike Soukup]

Originally posted by EStokely
Throwing a match.
I can see being in 8th place with 1 or 2 matches to go.
Seed #1 "really" wants us as a partner. Do we screw over our partner for a match to place 9th?

We were in this unique position last year at nationals. Friday seeding had gone poorly, we were in the the middle of the pack. Saturday morning we were picking up steam and were seeded in the low teens going into our final match (the 2nd to last of the seeding rounds). We knew the #1 seed Team 33 wanted to pick us, but we went out and performed as well as we could for that match. We ended up with a memorable match (a robot rode on our back while we drove to the endzone after balancing) & our highest seeding score at nats and finished .7 out of 8th place.

Our team leader likes to use this as an example of GP for our rookie team members. All teams have an obligation to their alliance partners to try their hardest during every match. If a team throws a match, the low score will lower their partner's ranking and may pull them out of the top 8. Being honest, acting with integrity, and living up to the high standards of a gracious professional are far more important than winning the competition.

Mike