FIRST vs Battlebots- which has had the greater impact on society?

[BBFIRSTCHICK]

" But Battlebots is a money maker point and said thats it!"


and FIRST IS NOT?????? Have you looked into how much FIRST is charging just for registration, Regional and then Nationals... and then they get a kick back on the hotels???? Not very cheap!!! at all!!!!ya Battle Bots is on TV , they do need to bring some money in!! Registration for the even is only 100 bucks.... When in FIRST......well..you can see the difference.In Battle Bots alot of money also goes into the whole competition! !!!! and I know for BBIQ (1.0 and 2.0) Trey and Greg paid for the WHOLE THING out of their own pockets without getting a cent back..... Battle Bots is not our for money just because they are on TV, thats just absurd !!!!


" There isn't a learning factor much in it."

Try to keep a 50 pound mass spinning 1200 RPMS+ at Equilibrium, when you are going 12 mph+, let alone building the thing. Taking into account that if you make one wrong measurement while cutting or welding your shell the whole thing is down the drain due to the fact that it is no longer going to be balanced and you just wasted all your time. Or what hight would be the most effective, how low your center of gravity should be, your moment of inertia and the whole 9 yards....... and that's just some things with a spinner... In Battle Bots there are so many other complex robots!! You need to know the force, amount of torque and so forth.

Mike you made yourself sound really dumb! There is a learning factor involved! When you try Battle Bots, then you can talk!!

[Adam Y.]

" But Battlebots is a money maker point and said thats it!"

Heheheh If only it was true. Most competitions make little to no money. From what I have read they usually end up in the red or barely make it in the black. The only reason Battlebots went on television is that you really cannot run a company or competition without any money.

[dlavery]

Originally posted by BBFIRSTCHICK
Have you looked into how much FIRST is charging just for registration, Regional and then Nationals... and then they get a kick back on the hotels???? Not very cheap!!! at all!!!!

I would highly recommend that you do a little homework before making such statements. FIRST does not get kick-backs from the hotels that support the regional and championship competitions. I defy you to produce any documentation or evidence that they do. To state that they do is incorrect, ill-informed, and insulting. Given that kick-backs are unethical and usually illegal, your statements also constitute libel.

Yes, the registration for the FIRST competition costs more than it does to register for Battlebots. But given what it costs to put on a competition event, the teams are getting a bargain. With FIRST, the teams pay more but the organization has complete control over the conduct and presentation of the event. The FIRST events appear to the public as high-quality, high-energy operations with professional conduct. FIRST, and the teams, get to control their own fate and how they are presented to the public.

With Battlebots, the teams pay less, but in exchange for the lower registration fee, the TV producers pick up the costs that the teams are not paying and take control of the public presentation of the event. A Battlebots competition can be just as high-quality and high-energy as a FIRST competition. But then Comedy Central gets to add on a layer of insipid commentary, a brain-dead bouncing hostess, meaningless "insights" into robot-building, and enough tacky crap to make even Bill Nye run away in order to sell commercials on the broadcast. Teams need to understand the trade-offs between the lower registration cost and the "dignity cost" of the Comedy Central presentation of Battlebots, and basically do their own cost/benefit analysis to see if it is worth it (note that I make a BIG DISTINCTION here between how Greg and Trey originally wanted to present Battlebots, and how Comedy Central trashed it up to turn it into the WWF of robotics).

-dave

[Dallin]

Originally posted by dlavery


Yes, the registration for the FIRST competition costs more than it does to register for Battlebots. But given what it costs to put on a competition event, the teams are getting a bargain. With FIRST, the teams pay more but the organization has complete control over the conduct and presentation of the event. The FIRST events appear to the public as high-quality, high-energy operations with professional conduct. FIRST, and the teams, get to control their own fate and how they are presented to the public.

With Battlebots, the teams pay less, but in exchange for the lower registration fee, the TV producers pick up the costs that the teams are not paying and take control of the public presentation of the event. A Battlebots competition can be just as high-quality and high-energy as a FIRST competition. But then Comedy Central gets to add on a layer of insipid commentary, a brain-dead bouncing hostess, meaningless "insights" into robot-building, and enough tacky crap to make even Bill Nye run away in order to sell commercials on the broadcast. Teams need to understand the trade-offs between the lower registration cost and the "dignity cost" of the Comedy Central presentation of Battlebots, and basically do their own cost/benefit analysis to see if it is worth it (note that I make a BIG DISTINCTION here between how Greg and Trey originally wanted to present Battlebots, and how Comedy Central trashed it up to turn it into the WWF of robotics).

-dave

I'd have to say I agree with you completely. It's really disappointing how Comedy Central completely changed the way that Trey and Greg wanted to represent Battlebots. It's one of the costs of working with a TV network, especially one like Comedy Central which is the host of South Park, Crank Yankers, and The Man show. It's sad that the way Battlebots is portrayed causes many engineers and robotics enthusiasts to see Battlebots in a negative way, I'm glad that someone can see through this and find value in what Trey and Greg attempted to do. I think that they are attempting to redeem themselves with Battlebots IQ though, as both of the events were completely paid for by them and I am sure that they will have much more involvement when it comes time to actually air it on TV, if at all. Hopefully, whatever network Battlebots and BBIQ end up on, will give them a better representation than the trash that comedy central gave them.

It's sad that these events are so expensive and that those are the two major trade-offs, although by participating I do not feel that I have had any loss in dignity. I compete because I enjoy it and I will better myself by competing. In addition, the atmosphere at the competition makes it totally worth while. I know that holding the events is real expensive as the shipping of the actual battlebox has had a major influence on where BBIQ 2.0 was held and where BBIQ 3.0 will be held, it's extremely expensive to ship and rebuild it. And although Battlebots has remained dormant for quite some time now, Combat Robotics has not. There are currently over 20 regional events listed in the RFL for all the weight classes all over the nation. It's amazing that the entrance fees are so low, especially when they are not being sponsored by any TV networks or anything of that sort. I mean you really can't go wrong with 85 bucks being the most expensive to register a 340 lb robot.

[BBFIRSTCHICK]

Originally posted by dlavery
I would highly recommend that you do a little homework before making such statements. FIRST does not get kick-backs from the hotels that support the regional and championship competitions. I defy you to produce any documentation or evidence that they do. To state that they do is incorrect, ill-informed, and insulting. Given that kick-backs are unethical and usually illegal, your statements also constitute libel.

Yes, the registration for the FIRST competition costs more than it does to register for Battlebots. But given what it costs to put on a competition event, the teams are getting a bargain. With FIRST, the teams pay more but the organization has complete control over the conduct and presentation of the event. The FIRST events appear to the public as high-quality, high-energy operations with professional conduct. FIRST, and the teams, get to control their own fate and how they are presented to the public.

With Battlebots, the teams pay less, but in exchange for the lower registration fee, the TV producers pick up the costs that the teams are not paying and take control of the public presentation of the event. A Battlebots competition can be just as high-quality and high-energy as a FIRST competition. But then Comedy Central gets to add on a layer of insipid commentary, a brain-dead bouncing hostess, meaningless "insights" into robot-building, and enough tacky crap to make even Bill Nye run away in order to sell commercials on the broadcast. Teams need to understand the trade-offs between the lower registration cost and the "dignity cost" of the Comedy Central presentation of Battlebots, and basically do their own cost/benefit analysis to see if it is worth it (note that I make a BIG DISTINCTION here between how Greg and Trey originally wanted to present Battlebots, and how Comedy Central trashed it up to turn it into the WWF of robotics).

-dave

I'll do my homework, I got my information from a reliable source. I will double check and make sure I heard correctly and then ask where they obtained that information, and if I am wrong then my mistake, Im sorry

[tonyargote]

Wow it sounds rough in this board. Ouch.

To ease the tension....

I would have to say that i have never been involved with Battlebots, and therefore can't tell you which is better. I can comment though from a spectators point of view: Both seem extremely exciting and emotionally compelling. When i see the sparks in battle bots i get just as excited and worked up as when i see the sack toppled or the robot make it to the top of the hill in FIRST.

It's mostly perspective, and from mine, i would say i enjoy watching both, and if given the choice would have difficulty picking between the two.

Rather than arguing over the fact that FIRST or BattleBots is "BETTER" i wish to only say that i hope they both survive and are around in time for future generations of would-be robot builders to enjoy.

Don't spoil either by little "tug of wars" instead recognize the strengths of both awesome programs.

[Penguinking59]

[SIN]_PK59 strikes again!!
look, they are both cool. B-Bots tought me alot about a whole load amount of stuff, but FIRST has just been equally important in my life.
[SIN]_PK59 strikes again!! again!!

[MisterX]

Well I really think that it is battlebots that catches the kids eyes I mean unless u have NASA tv FIRST is never on T.V. except the occasional news story which doesn't truly show it. I mean FIRST just doesn't have the media to attract the kids who are just channel surfing, it is out there but the kids need to look for it. However, although Battlebots catches the kids eyes it is safe to say that is by far FIRST that truly gives the kids the knowledge and hands on experience

[Marygrace]

Originally posted by Amanda Morrison
You are asking two different questions in your post and in your poll.

FIRST, by far, has had the greatest impact on society as a whole. Battlebots does not have any depth - it is a program designed to design, build, and create a mechanical toy that destroys other things. However, Battlebots has done more to spark public interest (outside of high schools, aka). Pick a random person off the street and ask them what FIRST is, and most likely they will not know. Ask them if they've ever heard of Battlebots, and you'll probably get a yes.

Battlebots is a TV show designed for those who like to sit around and watch things... and FIRST is a program designed for those who like to make those things happen.

I second that, LOL.

[BBFIRSTCHICK]

Originally posted by MisterX
Well although Battlebots catches the kids eyes it is safe to say that is by far FIRST that truly gives the kids the knowledge and hands on experience

Have you tried Battle Bots/Battle Bots IQ?? That is my first question
I started doing Battle Bots right after my first year in US FIRST.. I was going into the 10th grade. Rather then just a 6week period, my team and myself worked on our robot for the whole year. We started the summer of 01 and then comp was held April of 02, and it has been like that for the past 2 going on 3 years. Going into my 2end year in FIRST, I was able to help my team out and play a larger role due to the fact that I had more knowledge because of my experience I gained while working with my BBIQ team. In Battle Bots you get loads of hands on experience, in my case more then FIRST. This is due to the fact that my Battle Bots team is way smaller then my US FIRST team. My first year I went from working on a team of 50(US FIRST) to working on a team of 7(BBIQ)!! I learned how to use all the machines and became even more familiar with them then I already had been. Due to the time I have spent on working on my teams Battle Bots, im one of the best welders in the shop, and I feel pretty comfortable working on the rest of the machines.... You get hands on experience in both programs, the more and more you work you are only positively reinforcing your actions by gaining more experience. Battle Bots/BBIQ is a lot more then just what you see on TV, just like FIRST is a lot more then just going to a National and or Regional. Its the hard work, team work, time, and dedication that went into creating something that you really do value. I just spent this past weekend working with little kids and helping them build table top robots... The experianece was amazing, and I did not have any machiens to go off and machine parts, or things to weld. It was all nuts and bolts!! Yet I had a field day with it, and I felt like a kid again. Even with little table top robots there is a large hands on aspect that you must take part in....

As for the knowlede aspect...
both are great.
all I can say for Battle Bots is try to keep a 50 pound mass that is spinning at 2000 RPM at equlaibruim. Its not that easy!

[miketwalker]

Both have their own impact, and both I see as good programs. Especially, as others have pointed out, with the Battlebots IQ program, I looked at that, and there are camps around here during the summer getting middle schoolers involved with hands-on robots at this program, yet I know for a fact they try to get FIRST participants to help out since they have a background, and can help shed a different view point. So, both have actually influenced one another, and in term then gone out to impact society. FIRST reaches out to the students that see "robotics" or however someone may label it before they know what FIRST is... and try it out, and in that way, they become part of FIRST and are influenced, and I know for a fact they pass on some of their knowledge to their friends, even if just joking around.

Some people have mentioned that just "seeing" TV isn't an impact, but I personally disagree. I have watched some amazing things on channels like Discovery Channel, TLC, etc. and even though I haven't been hands-on in, for example, Monster Garage or Junkyard Wars... just watching them teaches you something and you see how others creativity flows, and you can reuse similar tactics to solve a similar problem in your own life, even if it has nothing to do similar, it simply gets your mind flowing. That's the same as what FIRST does, a team gets together... brainstorms, and develops a robot as well as work on many other aspects. In real life, you're not going to go build something to go up a ramp and knock down a wall of plastic tubs, and in real life your not going to run out to a junkyard and start building a catapult (even though that would be fun)... but it's the knowledge you learn from others, and from hands on. FIRST helps with the hands on area, as well as the knowledge passed on, it just doesn't have the media coverage for as much knowledge to be passed on. With Battlebots and other shows, they might be "fighting", but someone could get hooked into trying something new out, and they might start brainstorming from something they saw on Junkyard Wars last night (I know I sure do when I watch some of these shows). Both the commercialized programs and FIRST rely on triggering your mind to start becoming creative, and THAT is what creates an impact, and they both do it in the same way, even if it's hard to notice, both rely on you seeing something and being inspired to be creative.

Therefore, I say we don't just say "FIRST is better" or "Battlebots is better" but to really look at it and see, "Ok, both are accomplishing the same goal and just getting people to start thinking and take action and evolve from there" and they do it very similar fashions, if you really get down to the main way it "affects society", it affects each person individually in the way it gets their mind to think, and I think that both commercialized and hands-on programs work together in our minds, and both make us reach our full potential. Being influenced by one won't get you sparked as much as both, you need to get involved, as well as see different people's approach, and at different problems... not just one problem, leading people to solve other problems. Wow, that was a long post, but that's my take on this.