2004 Championship Qualification?

[Andy Baker]

Competition registration is almost upon us. We start signing up for competitions on Sept. 29. We are going to sign up for Regionals and Championships.

At the same time, there will be about 1000 teams this year. Interestingly enough, all of the 5 rookie FIRST teams from 2003 in Indiana are even numbered teams. If all of the even numbered teams are eligible for the Championships, then those 500 even numbered teams will be trying to fill the "X" amount of open spots in Atlanta.

On the FIRST site, it is written that Championship qualification is not determined yet. This makes sense to me, since there will be many even numbered teams along with many pre-qualified teams who will be all trying to fill 280-290 spots.

I am wondering if teams realize that FIRST may be re-thinking Championship qualification criteria. Even numbered teams and teams who accumulated "points" or other qualification criteria should not assume that they are definitely going to Atlanta. We really need to hear what FIRST decides... and it should be soon.

What are your thoughts?

Andy B.

[Madison]

I've been considering that same possibility for awhile, Andy. It seems to me that if the criteria were going to remain as they've been, or if they were only making minor or cosmetic changes to the criteria, it wouldn't take all too long for that to happen. It's been weeks now that we've waited for new criteria.

I also wanted to mention that initial event registration for Atlanta seems limited to 210 teams. Less than half of the teams who presumably qualify will fit into the event.

[Rob Colatutto]

My thoughts on this topic agree with what Andy suggested, FIRST might be rethinking the qualification process. There are many threads over the past year about this so if your interested in further reading you can check out those threads. The only reason I think the even odd was left in for the 2003 season was to make it fair to all the odd teams who missed out on 2002 championship. (Before 2002 nationals was always open registration for anyone who is new to the boards) But like I've said before, one thing I'd like to see with the championship is the qualification turn to a more technology award based and regional winner entry only event. So 2004 and 2003 technology award and regional winning teams should be the first allowed to register. I was thinking about this a few weeks ago and worked out a number of about 400 teams would then be able to register, but then taking away doubles and teams who win year to year you'd probably end up with about 240 teams, and then some teams just simply don't have the money to go to the Championship which would put you at about 200, leaving a few open spots for lucky teams. Thats just my little idea for qualifications that I feel would make a much more competitive Championship event.

[Anthony Towne]

One idea I had back before forums this year was that each regional should have a certain number of teams qualify for nationals. Let me explain:

This coming year, for instance, even number teams have basically free rides to Championships, regardless of winning anything (space permitting). Regional winning alliances get to go to the Championships as well. If all three teams are even number teams, then no additional team from that regional is going to the Championships (except for certain award winners). If FIRST said they would take 3 teams no matter what from every regional (this would exclude even number teams), then if there are any even number teams in the winning alliance, FIRST would go down the list of either qualification points, or second place alliance teams, and select odd number teams to fill whatever spots are leftover. So if 2 even number teams are on the winning alliance, 2 odd number teams would be picked to fill those 2 spots (depending on performance).

[Wayne C.]

I doubt they are changing the points system this year. The topic wasn't even on the agenda or up for discussion at the forum this past summer.

More likely, the increasing numbers of teams qualifying from regional performance this year will fill more and more spaces and the remaining filler would come from the even teams. I think the idea that teams must qualify for the Nats is getting more ingrained.

WC

[WakeZero]

I would like to see FIRST drop the even/odd rule, while at the same time relax the point system to qualify. Instead of just tech awards, let it be ANY award. So any team that:

a) Gets an award

or

b) is a regional finalist

...will get to go. If there are 27 regionals this year, with 14 awards at each, I estimate between 270 and 540 teams will qualify for Nationals. Seems good to me =)

[generalbrando]

Oh how I miss the good ol' days. There's something to be said for making the competition better by keeping teams like the Monkeys out of the ring. Had we gone to nationals, it would have been a struggle for us to move again. However, when I was at the national event in 2001 (the largest national event FIRST has had, I believe), it wasn't the tough competition that was most drawing for me. It was going around the pit and talking to other teams. Regional events offer this in small scale to rookie teams. However, it's not the same. In St. Louis there were so many rookie teams that some of the professionalism and spirit wasn't there because there were many teams that showed up expecting a confrontational relationship between all other teams. They don't really know what to expect. Some of my own team members couldn't believe we got parts from other teams. We even got booed because we were moving our robot ourselves during practice.

At the national event everyone buys into a sense of community a lot more and the true meaning of FIRST shines. If we can't have everyone going to the national event every year (which I understand is impossible), then I think we at least need to send a good number of rookie/second year teams out there so they can bring back the true spirit of FIRST to these rookie hot beds like St. Louis.

[Steve W]

Well said.

[ChrisH]

Originally posted by generalbrando
At the national event everyone buys into a sense of community a lot more and the true meaning of FIRST shines. If we can't have everyone going to the national event every year (which I understand is impossible), then I think we at least need to send a good number of rookie/second year teams out there so they can bring back the true spirit of FIRST to these rookie hot beds like St. Louis.

I think a better and more feasible idea is to ensure that new regionals are well "salted" with experienced teams. Especially those who have demonstrated the "FIRST spirit". I think that is one of the few advantages that we had in the early years of the LA regional. While we had many rookie teams, we also had many multi-year veterans who had a history of helping other teams. These veterans set the tone of the competition from Kickoff on.

Our rookies came knowing that not only would they recieve whatever help they needed that was available, but that they would also be expected to help other teams as they were able.

[generalbrando]

I like that idea. I don't mean to defeat it at all, but I do wonder how we could manage to attract more veterans to these rookie filled regionals. One thing that may attract them is the possibility for them to get an easier ticket to the national. On the other hand that would upset a lot of the rookie teams that see a rookie filled regional as their only chance at getting there themselves.

Ultimately your idea is more feasible and economical (the Monkeys definitely could not have afforded plane tickets). The team forum at the end of the season is a great place to bring up these points and possiblities. It seems like in order for the administration to make this kind of change, they would have to impose unfair policy, which I hope they would be reluctant to do. So, my question to anyone who can come up with any idea is: how can all of the teams and individuals help transform these regionals?

Inevitably the regional events need to be more like the national event in their purpose, message, and spirit. More teams are coming and unfortunately there will probably be rookie teams this year that will never make it to a national competition. We need to make these rookie regionals better.