Request For The Programmers

[Raven_Writer]

Please do these two things:

1. Please don't start one of those "Which compiler is better, [compiler name] or [another compiler name]?" These flood enough board I visit frequently, and is very annoying. Not from what people START to say, but what they END UP saying. Usually it turns into "Mine is better than yours....you bite!". Keep using what you are using, and don't put down others that are using a different one than you.

2: We still don't know FOR SURE if the language is gonna be C-based. And if it's C-based, a C compiler I DON'T THINK will work. I'm not sure on this, but it'd make sense if it didn't really. We'll have to wait til 10-01-03 (at the earliest) to find out the language we will be using this year. So, just please don't go around saying "The new language is gonna be C-related! Let's all learn C!" Then end up having it still be PBASIC.

Mods and/or admins, if you don't want this here, or something, then please do delete it or something; I just felt this should be said sometime before the official language is released.

[Ian W.]

I'm pretty sure that the language will be changed, although to what, we still don't know. All that I can personally say is that I've heard from several people C, but who knows?

If it is C/C++, it won't be VS++ or anything like that, I bet it'll be some form of embedded C with a custom compiler or something like that. Same goes from Java(elin).

Bottom line, who cares? We'll find out, and if you don't like it, well, sucks to be you. If you do like it, great. You're given something to work with, now work with it. Life is not perfect, FIRST is no exception.

[Raven_Writer]

Originally posted by Ian W.
I'm pretty sure that the language will be changed, although to what, we still don't know. All that I can personally say is that I've heard from several people C, but who knows?

If it is C/C++, it won't be VS++ or anything like that, I bet it'll be some form of embedded C with a custom compiler or something like that. Same goes from Java(elin).

Bottom line, who cares? We'll find out, and if you don't like it, well, sucks to be you. If you do like it, great. You're given something to work with, now work with it. Life is not perfect, FIRST is no exception.

Dude, chill. You totally missed my point of this thread.

Point 1 basically means don't go saying that like, MSVC++ .NET is a better compiler for the language than Borland command-line version is.

Point 2 is just saying don't go doing everything for one language (like the conversion between PBASIC and C, it was a sweet idea though), and then having the new language be like, Delphi or something (just an example), because then you just wasted your time.

Sorry if my post wasn't clear, I wasn't saying the change is gonna suck or anything, I was just trying to say don't go making a fuss about compilers, and the language.

[Matt Krass]

While on the subjects of points....what was your point here? To bash other people's posts?

[djcapelis]

I agree that we shouldn't speculate too far, but when we do get the information... threads containing information on compilers and whatnot should be quite useful and much appreciated.

Anyways in the meantime... perhaps a thread summerizing people's dealing with FIRST on the matter as opposed to speculationg would be nice.

Some people seemed to have some information directly from FIRST and frankly that is what I'd like to hear.

[Raven_Writer]

Originally posted by Matt Krass
While on the subjects of points....what was your point here? To bash other people's posts?

No, the points were all ready addressed in my 2nd post.

I'm not saying don't put down people's posts, I'm just saying 1. don't think what you use is better than others, and 2. don't go all C-based crazy when the new language might end up being Delphi-based.

[KenWittlief]

do you have an adversion to learning new languages or something?!

If someone wants to start mastering C, thats excellent!

learning a new language is never a waste of time - if you dont use C for FIRST you will use it for something else

besides - computer software = algorythms + data structures

it doesnt matter what language you use, thats nothing but syntax and structure

if you can program in basic, you can program in C, and in pascal, and whatever langauage you want.

think of it like some other disipline. If you understand physics, it doenst matter what language you speak, if you learned in french, you can learn to speak english or german well enough to be a physicist in england or Germany

right?

but any time you learn something new, and invest your energy into it, thats a good thing!

[djcapelis]

Indeed, new languages are always good. Speaking of which, seeing as you seem to have an obsession with Delphi, have you tried Kylix?

It's the companion language expect it works on a decent Operating System. Linux, though I suppose I shouldn't start a conversation on that, so please ignore the offensive comment to windows somewhat.

Also, I've been wondering about the availablity of Linux tools for the new language, if it's some latest little spin-off of BASIC will FIRST screw over all the Linux users yet again?

A lot of work has been put into Linux-based development tools for PBasic and STAMP, partially and mainly due to this competition, I suppose the efforts can just be done with the new language, if it comes with a tokenizer/instruction library, if that's even needed.

I suppose it's too early to speculate, but does anyone know if I can contact FIRST to explain the whole situation and implore them to choose something which is already used enough where it supports Linux for dev of it out-of-box?

I mean... after all... most of the serious chips run linux and are developed on linux, I understand you can't completely move people over, but it would be nice to have the option to actually use the system that you'd likely use in the real world.

[Raven_Writer]

Originally posted by KenWittlief
do you have an adversion to learning new languages or something?!

If someone wants to start mastering C, thats excellent!

learning a new language is never a waste of time - if you dont use C for FIRST you will use it for something else

besides - computer software = algorythms + data structures

it doesnt matter what language you use, thats nothing but syntax and structure

if you can program in basic, you can program in C, and in pascal, and whatever langauage you want.

think of it like some other disipline. If you understand physics, it doenst matter what language you speak, if you learned in french, you can learn to speak english or german well enough to be a physicist in england or Germany

right?

but any time you learn something new, and invest your energy into it, thats a good thing!

I'm not against learning new languages, I encourage it! Why is everyone getting my points mixed up into what they want them to be? I've already stated what I ment.

Yes, if someone wants to learn C, that is great! It's a fine language from what I have done w/ it, and it's great all around. I'm not saying C is a bad language, I'm saying it may not actually be the language we use this year.

if you can program in basic, you can program in C, and in pascal, and whatever langauage you want.

If you program in any language, you can program in another, even if you never programmed before.

Indeed, new languages are always good. Speaking of which, seeing as you seem to have an obsession with Delphi, have you tried Kylix?

I don't really have an obsession w/ Delphi, because I never really touched it. I'm just using Delphi as an example because it was the first to come to my head when I started this thread.

I haven't tried Kylix, because I don't have a *nux operating system (if it runs on windows, please tell me and I'll use it).

Please, if anyone else has an arguement like the above ones, please just PM me, or IM me. I got my contact info in my sig.

[rbayer]

I think I get what you're trying to say, and if I'm right, then I think it's a good idea--it was just a little confusing from your post what exactly this thread is about (especially with the poll). To summarize what I think you mean, here's a short little post I was gonna make in the next few days but it looks like you beat me to it.


Staying Civilized:
As most of you probably know, rumors (some confirmed, others just floating) have been circulating about a new language next year. Obviously, this is going to make the next few months quite crazy for us programmers, and there's a few things that will make the transition easier:

a) Whatever language we get is the language we have to use (unless InnovationFirst provides options). Instead of bogging down in how much better/worse the new one is than PBASIC, let's jut take it in stride and deal with it. That way, more energy can be concentrated on learning the actual control system, etc.

b) Whatever it is, it will be equally new to all of us. Rookies and vets will be on the same plane, so don't be afraid to ask questions. Yes, we all may be PBASIC demi-gods, but that doesn't matter anymore (unless it stays PBASIC). Along those same lines, be nice to the rookies--they very well may know just as much as you do.

c) I'm going to try to update RoboEmu for this year, but I can't make any promises. Especially since I don't belong to a team anymore and therefore won't have access to a control system.

d) As of right now, C, Java, and PBASIC are just rumors. For all we know, it could be freaking LISP. Thus, go ahead and learn C or Java or whatever else you want--they're good languages to know--but don't expect it to necessarily be helpful for FIRST. And when the language does come out, don't whine about how much time you "wasted" learning a different language other than what FIRST uses.

Just my 2c. Feel free to PM/email/IM if you want to debate, etc.

-Rob

[Raven_Writer]

Originally posted by rbayer
I think I get what you're trying to say, and if I'm right, then I think it's a good idea--it was just a little confusing from your post what exactly this thread is about (especially with the poll). To summarize what I think you mean, here's a short little post I was gonna make in the next few days but it looks like you beat me to it.


Staying Civilized:
As most of you probably know, rumors (some confirmed, others just floating) have been circulating about a new language next year. Obviously, this is going to make the next few months quite crazy for us programmers, and there's a few things that will make the transition easier:

a) Whatever language we get is the language we have to use (unless InnovationFirst provides options). Instead of bogging down in how much better/worse the new one is than PBASIC, let's jut take it in stride and deal with it. That way, more energy can be concentrated on learning the actual control system, etc.

b) Whatever it is, it will be equally new to all of us. Rookies and vets will be on the same plane, so don't be afraid to ask questions. Yes, we all may be PBASIC demi-gods, but that doesn't matter anymore (unless it stays PBASIC). Along those same lines, be nice to the rookies--they very well may know just as much as you do.

c) I'm going to try to update RoboEmu for this year, but I can't make any promises. Especially since I don't belong to a team anymore and therefore won't have access to a control system.

d) As of right now, C, Java, and PBASIC are just rumors. For all we know, it could be freaking LISP. Thus, go ahead and learn C or Java or whatever else you want--they're good languages to know--but don't expect it to necessarily be helpful for FIRST. And when the language does come out, don't whine about how much time you "wasted" learning a different language other than what FIRST uses.

Just my 2c. Feel free to PM/email/IM if you want to debate, etc.

-Rob

Yes, what you just posted is what I was trying to get.

Sorry for the confusion. The poll is just basically asking weither you agree with my requests, or not (or if you don't care), and if it was a good idea to post this thread.

All your points are basically what I was trying to say also.

Basically point "D" is the same as my 2nd point, and point "A" is basically what my 1rst point was about.

Thank you Rob for posting that, hopefully that can clear up what I could not.

[ttedrow]

Don't think about SEX.

So, what are thinking about right now?

Apply this theory to any new threads.

I rest my case.

[djcapelis]

c) I'm going to try to update RoboEmu for this year, but I can't make any promises. Especially since I don't belong to a team anymore and therefore won't have access to a control system.

Well... depending on your location.

Ug, I'd really like to see that come about, so let me know if there's something I can do to help, coding or otherwise, as I will have access to a control system, and would like to help. Hopefully I would know enough to be useful to some extent.