Go to Post ummm who is John V Neun....? - Korbin [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Competition > Rules/Strategy
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2002, 09:07
taranathicus taranathicus is offline
Registered User
#0811
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: NH
Posts: 1
taranathicus is an unknown quantity at this point
Question launching stuff

How do the rules deal with launching a projectile(tethered) to the other end to get points for having your robot in your robot scoring zone while also being able to hodl the goal(s) where you want them?
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2002, 10:20
kevinw kevinw is offline
Registered User
#0065
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Farmington Hills
Posts: 132
kevinw is a name known to allkevinw is a name known to allkevinw is a name known to allkevinw is a name known to allkevinw is a name known to allkevinw is a name known to all
missiles away

I believe it is explicitly stated that the only thing that may be used as a projectile is a ball. No part of your robot may be used as a projectile, tethered or not.
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2002, 14:38
Jay5780 Jay5780 is offline
Registered User
no team (Aztechs)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: May 2001
Rookie Year: 1996
Location: Warwick, Rhode Island
Posts: 172
Jay5780 will become famous soon enoughJay5780 will become famous soon enough
TETHERED PROJECTILE

I pretty sure that the tether would break the entanglement rule as it my cause entanglement.

I'm not sure about the specific rule # but in the past this has been the case
__________________
Jay
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2002, 15:31
bigqueue bigqueue is offline
Registered User
#0811 (A.R.C.)
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Nashua, NH
Posts: 231
bigqueue will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to bigqueue Send a message via Yahoo to bigqueue
Question Re: TETHERED PROJECTILE

Quote:
Originally posted by Jay5780
I pretty sure that the tether would break the entanglement rule as it my cause entanglement.

I'm not sure about the specific rule # but in the past this has been the case
But as I recall, the definition of a "projectile" two years ago had something to do with something traveling through an arc.....so in that case, something SHOT so that it rolled along the floor was fine.

Entanglement is a whole other story...but I wonder if during a 2 minute match, "potential entanglement" might not also be "time" dependent?

That is, it is a potential at some moments in a match, and clearly NOT at others.

Anyone else think there might be a moment in the match when entanglement might not be a problem and therefore is NOT an issue?

Do you think we could build a mechanism that operates only during those times?


__________________
Team 4987: Megarams
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2002, 15:55
Skanker's Avatar
Skanker Skanker is offline
Registered User
#0498 (R.P.M)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ (CHS)
Posts: 31
Skanker is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Skanker
Perhaps if you launched at the end of the match? I think that, in some cases it may be a safety risk too... FIRST did post an update about this. They seemed to be intentionally ambiguous about the idea. they said to make sure taht you don't entangle anyone and don't damage the field. It seems that if you are careful in how you design your 'projectile', then it may be OK to have it. maybe, a rolling object instead of flying?
__________________
-Sean Rice
Cactus Robotics Club Alumni
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2002, 16:44
Adrian Wong Adrian Wong is offline
Registered User
#0596 (SciClones)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Hopkinton, Mass.
Posts: 146
Adrian Wong is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Adrian Wong
Quote:
We are using a "common sense" definition of what constitutes a projectile. The exact determination will be up to the robot inspectors and referees at the competition events. Below is an attempt to provide a formal definition:

"A projectile is any object, whether attached or not, that is
launched from the robot and continues moving away from the robot by its momentum, typically following a parabolic path as it falls to the surface of the playing field."

Note that something lanched at floor level, such that it never truely falls, but rolls or slids across the floor could still be considered a projectile.
The last paragraph seemingly restricts the use of ground-effect (hehe) projectiles.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2002, 22:36
fs_2002's Avatar
fs_2002 fs_2002 is offline
Registered User
#0804 (TeamMetamorphisis)
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Rock Hill, SC
Posts: 29
fs_2002 is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to fs_2002 Send a message via Yahoo to fs_2002
What about something that rolled on its on power and could come back on its own power?
~bobb
Team 804
__________________
"Fundrasing?!? CHILDREN????? AHHHHH!!!!"

"The Pants command me!! Do not ignore the rubber pants!"

"Word up kids, This is POOP DOG!!!"

"I MUST HAVE TACOS!!!!!"
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 10-01-2002, 23:20
Suneet Suneet is offline
Physicist-In-Training
None #0599 (RoboDox)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 245
Suneet is a splendid one to beholdSuneet is a splendid one to beholdSuneet is a splendid one to beholdSuneet is a splendid one to beholdSuneet is a splendid one to beholdSuneet is a splendid one to beholdSuneet is a splendid one to beholdSuneet is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via ICQ to Suneet Send a message via AIM to Suneet
Quote:
What about something that rolled on its [own] power and could come back on its own power?
As long as the thing that connected it to the main robot could not entangle another robot, even by accident, it would be fine, I should think.

Our team is doing something like this, but we don't have anything powered on the end. Just extend metal solidly from the 'bot. It's powered, and it's not in any way a projectile.

Last edited by Suneet : 10-01-2002 at 23:22.
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2002, 07:13
Matt Ryan Matt Ryan is offline
Registered User
#0069 (Team HYPER)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 126
Matt Ryan is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Matt Ryan Send a message via AIM to Matt Ryan
Quote:
Originally posted by Skanker
Perhaps if you launched at the end of the match? I think that, in some cases it may be a safety risk too... FIRST did post an update about this. They seemed to be intentionally ambiguous about the idea. they said to make sure taht you don't entangle anyone and don't damage the field. It seems that if you are careful in how you design your 'projectile', then it may be OK to have it. maybe, a rolling object instead of flying?
They stated that if it poses an entanglement hazard, it will be disabled/DQed (I should really know which one...but its early).

They never mentioned when, so it seems (to me, at least) clear that they intend to enforce that at any and all times.

Even at 1 second left...thats VERY important...many matches will be won in the last split-second of the match.
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2002, 11:44
Unsung FIRST Hero
Nate Smith Nate Smith is offline
FRC Key Volunteer Trainer
AKA: CrazyNate
no team
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Old Town, Maine
Posts: 1,029
Nate Smith is a splendid one to beholdNate Smith is a splendid one to beholdNate Smith is a splendid one to beholdNate Smith is a splendid one to beholdNate Smith is a splendid one to beholdNate Smith is a splendid one to beholdNate Smith is a splendid one to beholdNate Smith is a splendid one to behold
Send a message via AIM to Nate Smith Send a message via Yahoo to Nate Smith
Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Ryan


They stated that if it poses an entanglement hazard, it will be disabled/DQed (I should really know which one...but its early).

They never mentioned when, so it seems (to me, at least) clear that they intend to enforce that at any and all times.
My impression of the "risk of entanglement" issue is this:
During the inspection process on Thursday, your machine will be examined for anything that a team could get tangled in during operation of the machine. If it is deemed that a mechanism or component on a machine poses a risk of entanglement, you will not be allowed to compete in qualifying matches until it is resolved, just as if you had not met any of the other inspection criteria. If they are not sure, they will warn you, and if it does become intangled during a match, you will be disallowed to compete further until the issue is corrected.

So, the key is not whether or not something does become entangled, but rather whether it could, as the ruling will, in 99% of cases, be made before a machine ever reaches the playing field.
__________________
Nate Smith
nsmith@smythsoft.com
12 seasons, 4 teams, and more time logged behind the scorekeeper's table than I care to remember...
returning for 2011? only time will tell...
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 07-02-2002, 21:31
Matt Ryan Matt Ryan is offline
Registered User
#0069 (Team HYPER)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 126
Matt Ryan is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Matt Ryan Send a message via AIM to Matt Ryan
Quote:
Originally posted by Nate Smith


My impression of the "risk of entanglement" issue is this:
During the inspection process on Thursday, your machine will be examined for anything that a team could get tangled in during operation of the machine. If it is deemed that a mechanism or component on a machine poses a risk of entanglement, you will not be allowed to compete in qualifying matches until it is resolved, just as if you had not met any of the other inspection criteria. If they are not sure, they will warn you, and if it does become intangled during a match, you will be disallowed to compete further until the issue is corrected.

So, the key is not whether or not something does become entangled, but rather whether it could, as the ruling will, in 99% of cases, be made before a machine ever reaches the playing field.
That is correct, but refs are human...they don't catch everything.

The one that inspects may say "ho hum", but the one on the field might penalize you for doing something.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 11-02-2002, 14:01
CaptainPlaid's Avatar
CaptainPlaid CaptainPlaid is offline
Registered User
#0314 (Megatron Oracles "Big MO")
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Flint, MI
Posts: 60
CaptainPlaid is an unknown quantity at this point
It is my impression that if you are planning on extending into the goal area you must have sometime of rigid telescoping device. From reading the rules and the updates I believe everything else will be DQ'ed during inspection.
Also, they will likely need to be mounted on some type of turn table so you do not have to turn your entire robot just to fire your "reacher."
__________________
I have not failed. I have just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Thomas Edison
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 12-02-2002, 07:48
Tom Fairchild's Avatar
Tom Fairchild Tom Fairchild is offline
Nice Guy
no team
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 308
Tom Fairchild will become famous soon enoughTom Fairchild will become famous soon enough
Send a message via AIM to Tom Fairchild
Why would being able to be launched from any angle affect the legality? As long as its not a risk to entanglement, I think its fine.

~Tom Fairchild~, who's roobot's arm last year could move in only one axis. Is that a risk of entanglement?
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-02-2002, 07:03
Matt Ryan Matt Ryan is offline
Registered User
#0069 (Team HYPER)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 126
Matt Ryan is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Matt Ryan Send a message via AIM to Matt Ryan
Quote:
Originally posted by Tom Fairchild
Why would being able to be launched from any angle affect the legality? As long as its not a risk to entanglement, I think its fine.

~Tom Fairchild~, who's roobot's arm last year could move in only one axis. Is that a risk of entanglement?
Anything that even looks like it might have the ability to entangle will earn you a DQ, regardless of how much time is left (1 sec left and you find you're DQed, and the losing alliance now gets three times your score).
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 14-02-2002, 07:04
Matt Ryan Matt Ryan is offline
Registered User
#0069 (Team HYPER)
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Quincy, MA
Posts: 126
Matt Ryan is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via ICQ to Matt Ryan Send a message via AIM to Matt Ryan
Quote:
Originally posted by CaptainPlaid
It is my impression that if you are planning on extending into the goal area you must have sometime of rigid telescoping device. From reading the rules and the updates I believe everything else will be DQ'ed during inspection.
Also, they will likely need to be mounted on some type of turn table so you do not have to turn your entire robot just to fire your "reacher."
If it runs along the ground, then it presents the possibility of entangling another robot by getting caught up in the drive train.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Free stuff at FIRST Not2B General Forum 7 30-09-2003 21:23
Anyone else loose stuff? xavior06 Championship Event 20 16-04-2003 15:33
question on launching boxes 2PI4Julia Rules/Strategy 4 18-01-2003 10:17
What does everyone like to do besides FIRST stuff?? Katie_269 Chit-Chat 45 17-07-2002 17:01
who can we buy stuff from?!?! archiver 2001 7 23-06-2002 23:04


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:18.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi