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  #46   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-10-2003, 18:07
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jnadke
If you can afford a $1000 laptop then I'm sure you can afford a $40 USB-to-RS232 converter ...
I never said I had a laptop, I just said that most laptops only have USB ports now.

Another scenario in which one should never assume anything.
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  #47   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-10-2003, 18:29
Rickertsen2 Rickertsen2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Venkatesh
Im quite impressed. I need to learn C for this, but it is worth the effort.

Also, since we (apparantly) can code in assembly, and I am quite fluent in x86 assembly, would it better for me to learn C or the PIC assembly?

Finally, I can't wait to see some default code.
I would definately reccomend learning C before PIC assembly. C is in practice much more robust and easier to use. If you know x86 asm, it shouldn't be hard to learn PIC asm, but i would concentrate on C.
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Unread 03-10-2003, 18:42
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Flowerday
There are several microcontrollers available that support USB directly.
Indeed, there are.
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  #49   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-10-2003, 19:03
Rickertsen2 Rickertsen2 is offline
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Hmm... Not only is there "PWM IN" but the "PWM outs" are 4 pin instead of 3pin. I wonder if they will not be using standard RC type interfaces for the speed controllers. Maybie you connect the plug between one set of pins for 2ms out and one way for 17ms out. This may or may not be possible depending on the pinout, but right now im too lazy to look it up.
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Unread 03-10-2003, 19:16
Jnadke Jnadke is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Matt Leese
This is mostly an educated guess but I'm assuming TTL Serial port means that the line level outputs of the serial port are at TTL level. TTL level defines zero as from 0 to 0.8 V and a one as from 2 to 5 V. Now, normal RS232 Serial Ports have an operating range from -15V to 15V for their output. The TTL Serial Port is a serial port that is specifically designed to interface with either TTL or TTL-compatible circuits. This means that it's much more effective for controlling a custom circuit than a regular RS232 Serial Port.

Matt
Just about dead-on. TTL is short for Transistor-to-Transistor Logic. The PIC Processor has a USART capable of 2 separate serial communications, in addition to the master serial port.


Quote:
Originally posted by Dave Flowerday
Also, those USB to serial converters aren't always that great. We tried using a few last year to program our custom circuit microcontroller and it was a no-go.
I was one step ahead of you and checked into that. According to this site, the one's I listed have few compatibility problems.
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Last edited by Jnadke : 03-10-2003 at 20:17.
  #51   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-10-2003, 19:52
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
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Jnadke

I dont know what spec sheet you are looking at? The PIC chip that is in the new RC has 68 I/O ports (pins) - not 9

?!

http://www.microchip.com/1010/pline/...8520/index.htm
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Unread 03-10-2003, 20:03
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rickertsen2
Hmm... Not only is there "PWM IN" but the "PWM outs" are 4 pin instead of 3pin. I wonder if they will not be using standard RC type interfaces for the speed controllers. Maybie you connect the plug between one set of pins for 2ms out and one way for 17ms out. This may or may not be possible depending on the pinout, but right now im too lazy to look it up.
The PWM output on the EduRC have historically been 4 pin connectors. On last year's EduRC, two of the four pins were connected to Vcc. The motors used one supply for logic, and the other for powering the motor itself. I doubt this has changed. I'm willing to bet that there are a few specific PWM outputs which will be 2ms, and specific outputs which will be 17ms (say outputs 1-4 are 17ms, and 5-8 are 2ms, for instance).

Quote:
Originally posted by Jnadke
Here's my take. I think there are 2 PICs in the RC, and the master serial ports are interconnected. As before, the data is shared between them. One handles the I/O and the other processes the user code. One of the USART ports on the I/O chip is probabaly used for an A-to-D converter. The microcontroller does have an internal A-to-D converter, but I think they would use that for the Digital In/Out, since it supports both. The relays are probabaly controlled by the I/O ports. The last USART is probabaly used for the communications radio.
On the programming chip side of things, I don't think any inputs would be used, other than the interrupts. Even then, they only enable 6 interrupts out of the 13 available (probabaly used for the microcontroller signalling). As before, the master serial port is probabaly used for intercommunication. The two USART's are probabaly used for the programming port and the TTL serial port for the custom circuit.
Being as the 18F8520 has an onboard 16 channel, 10bit ADC, I would expect those inputs to go directly to the user programmable microcontroller on the EduRC, rather than having another arbitrary layer separating us from the data. On the FRC RC, however, this may not be the case, being as they have the inputs listed as 16 analog and 16 digital (in or out). I guess we'll have to wait a little longer for clarification on this.

Regarding interrupts, however, while I might be able to explain some, I am confused about something. You're correct in that there are 13 sources for interrupts, at two different user-selectable priority settings, on the controller, but there're only 4 external hardware interrupts available on the 18F8520, with the rest being software related (timer interrupts, USART Tx empty and Rx full interrupts, A->D conversion complete, etc.). INT[0-3] are pins 55-58 (in reverse order), so I am very curious as to how they're getting 6 external hardware interrupts.

I guess this all means that, despite IFI releasing so much information to the public, the answers they've given have only produced more and more questions.

Time will tell.
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  #53   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-10-2003, 20:22
Jnadke Jnadke is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by KenWittlief
Jnadke

I dont know what spec sheet you are looking at? The PIC chip that is in the new RC has 68 I/O ports (pins) - not 9

http://www.microchip.com/1010/pline/...8520/index.htm
I completely missed the pin diagrams, I was looking for those. I read it and assumed that the IO Ports were serial, but that didn't make any sense. I see what it meant now, the individual pins are grouped into a single 8 bit register.

I've since removed my post/theory because the cached webpage from IFI. After I posted, I refreshed IFI's site and I noticed their specs had changed. One of the things that didn't make sense was that they listed I/O pins were sampled at 50 MHz.
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  #54   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 03-10-2003, 20:30
Rickertsen2 Rickertsen2 is offline
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It is very possible (and likely) that like in previous years' controllers there will be a master and a user programmable microcontroller. The user programmable controller sends commands to the Master processor, which generates PWM, Is in charge of auto/disable etc.
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Unread 04-10-2003, 18:14
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Anyone else notice that the EDU-RC doesn't have a tether to operator plug or switch?
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Unread 04-10-2003, 18:30
Dave Flowerday Dave Flowerday is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by Jnadke
I was one step ahead of you and checked into that. According to this site, the one's I listed have few compatibility problems.
What does that have to do with using it for programming an RC? That site just shows USB to serial compatibility with some piece of audio equipment. The USB to serial converters that we have work fine with most other things...
  #57   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-10-2003, 02:14
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Quote:
Originally posted by rust710
Anyone else notice that the EDU-RC doesn't have a tether to operator plug or switch?
Did you notice that the indicator LED says PWM IN/RADIO?
Can we control this thing PWM inputs only?
Will the new OI have PWM OUT?
What is the deal with the PROG push button right next to the battery?

There are so many questions to be answered. I can't wait to so the Full RC, especially since my team will not get the EDUbot. I kind wish everyone got an EDUbot since this is a new controller, and it would be nice to have something to test the program on.
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Last edited by The Lucas : 05-10-2003 at 02:19.
  #58   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 05-10-2003, 08:08
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Lucas

There are so many questions to be answered. I can't wait to so the Full RC, especially since my team will not get the EDUbot. I kind wish everyone got an EDUbot since this is a new controller, and it would be nice to have something to test the program on.
This is from the 9/26 FIRST email blast:

Quote:
In order to allow everyone to build familiarity with the system, all teams that received the FIRST EDUrobotics kit last year will receive the new control system when they register
So once you pay, you should get it when they start shipping out, around 10/15.
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Unread 05-10-2003, 08:18
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Lucas
I can't wait to so the Full RC, especially since my team will not get the EDUbot. I kind wish everyone got an EDUbot since this is a new controller, and it would be nice to have something to test the program on.
My understanding from what is on the IFI site is that returning teams from last year will get only the new EDU-RC, rather than the entire EDU kit again...
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