Rendering Tips

[...............]

Originally posted by djcapelis
Seems like an ineffecient use of time... I don't wait more than 7 and 1/2 sec/ frame (with full 16-bit anti-aliasing at 800x600). I find this to be reasonable and wasting two weeks to tweak this seems to be a bit lacking in common sense.

I hasn't even approached a slow time with my last animation project:

added frame 265 (frame 264 in avi): Time: 00:01.46
added frame 266 (frame 265 in avi): Time: 00:01.52
added frame 267 (frame 266 in avi): Time: 00:01.44
added frame 268 (frame 267 in avi): Time: 00:01.46
added frame 269 (frame 268 in avi): Time: 00:01.43
added frame 270 (frame 269 in avi): Time: 00:01.44
added frame 271 (frame 270 in avi): Time: 00:01.47

I love renderer's that don't suck... This is one of the reasons I dislike 3DS max so much.

Oh, and I'm also browsing the web while rendering that... my instant-messaging program is up and communicating accross 5-7 different IM services... so I'm hardly stripping the computer down to render fast. (In case anyone is wondering on the numbers for a benchmark type thing, I'm running a 2.53ghz P4, most rendering machines are dual or tri...)

i do NOT mean 2 weeks total. i mean if you are not familiar w/ the render settings you should spend whatever time you have trying out different render settings. Then once you are familiar with render settings like me or presumably you, you just go through the settings and plug in the values either GUI or command-line.
Of course when you use 3DS Max 5 there are not very many ways to control your render out of the box... I haven't seen 3DS 6 yet, though i imagine they will dumb down mental ray to point and click also.
GI, Final Gather, Light Tracer, etc. will also definatly tack on some render time.
All settings are definatly worth a check out.
I know when I use Maya 5 and Shake 3 i have made presets besides the default that i can pick out of when rendering scene depending on its complexity and attributes.
I did NOT mean 2 weeks to render.
You should only take a day or two days to render out 2000+ frames with a single 2.54 ghz proc.
Oh- and btw why are you rendering directly into an uncompressed avi? Rendering out as an .iff or .cin sequence would make editing alot faster and easier.

[djcapelis]

Originally posted by ...............

You should only take a day or two days to render out 2000+ frames with a single 2.54 ghz proc.
Oh- and btw why are you rendering directly into an uncompressed avi? Rendering out as an .iff or .cin sequence would make editing alot faster and easier.

It should take about an hour.

I'm rendering into a compressed AVI, I can render into an uncompressed about the same speed, the speed of the disk starts to almost become a limitation.

[Salik Syed]

are you saying it should take an hour to render 2000 frames... ha... with what in the scene ? a box and a 12 segment sphere?

Now if you have actual objects... materials etc.. it gets much slower especially with metals as they require raytraced reflections for accuracy, and glass especially also, and then theres special effects i.e combustion, fog, volume lights and many more that slow down the animation, mostly it is just sheer polygon count that can slow the scene down.... most scenes have 30,000 polygons at least, and also texture size etc... u can almost never get 2000 frames in one hour unless... rendering a box and a 12 segment sphere....

yeah even w/ a fast computer it isn't that fast! i've rendered 60 frame sequences on a Dual Xeon and it takes more than 7 min.... but that may be cuz of lens flare but that takes a few sec a frame

[djcapelis]

Whoops... forgot to calc that out. You're right, that is a bit steep... it should take about 4 hours for a complex scene.

As for the addition of a few effects adding seconds per frame? You seriously need to use a better renderer. And for god's sake, don't watch the application, make sure it isn't bothing to send output to an X server (or equivient) to be displayed on the screen and causing you overhead that way.

I found switching to another virtual desktop increased by rendering speeds by about a factor of 5.

I bet that still sounds unreasonably short for a complex animation doesn't it? You should really not use Max's renderer...

[Sunny Thaper]

Check out Vray, it's fast and free and quite good.

[Lev]

Alright – here’s my mini-guide:

Time Distribution:

1) Don’t rush into modeling/animating, etc. Spend at least a few days planning, drawing storyboard, and writing script. Create a schedule and fallback plan in case you might get behind.

2) Do not focus too much on geometry. Instead, spend more time texturing and mapping. In fact the time it takes to properly map objects is usually greater than the time it takes to model them.

3) Adding motion is probably the least time-consuming part, but takes a lot of effort to tweak to perfection.

4) Always leave A LOT of time for rendering/post production. Aim for a minimum of one week. Week and a half is best. The quality of animation rises dramatically with tweaking, and it is crucial to always have time to re-render if you find some serious mistakes.

With that said here’s a timetable we had for last year, and I think worked very well:
Week 1: planning/start modeling
Week 2: modeling/start mapping
Week 3: modeling/mapping/
Week 4: mapping/ animation
Week 5: animation/first draft/begin tweaking
Week 6: rendering/tweaking/sound/post-production

Planning:

1) Really read the rules and instructions – you’ll be surprised how many forget that.
2) Brainstorm on the subject, and come up with a few ideas for animations, and write scripts for them.
3) Having troubles with ideas for animation? Try thinking of “slogans”, or key messages, first – and work from there.
4) Things to avoid: there have been WAY too many space/aliens/explosions animations. I’m not saying that choosing such theme automatically fails you – I do remember some very good space themed animations, but be advised that if you go in this direction, chances are you’ll see an animation almost identical to yours.
5) Try “prototyping” your animation – do sketches for key frames of your animation, and put them in a video editing program (moviemaker works fine) and record the voiceover you plan to have for the script. This really helps the whole group to see what the animation is going to be like, and also gives a general idea for scene timings.

Modeling:

1) Keep the poly-count as low as possible. Almost nothing increases the render times as much as unnecessary geometry. You’ll be surprised how much you can do with a simple box with a good texture.
2) Choose wisely on where to fake. Rule of Thumb – if its not a close-up, extruded outline, or even a box would do.
3) Always round the edges. Lighting on your objects will never look right unless the edges are rounded. Use chamfer boxes everywhere instead of regular boxes.
4) Xref-ing objects might be a great way to synchronize work, but be careful with it as it tends to slow down render times, and might be tricky to use at times. (do not x-ref IK-ed objects unless you are just looking for extra pain)
5) Since the chances are you’ll have a robot in your animation, have a person working on it in autocad/inventor. If you have a dedicated inventor team, do it anyways, because the model they have is likely to be unsuitable for animation. (i.e. – no, you don’t need to have every speed controller modeled with 2000 faces.. it really should be a box)
6) Unless you already have some experience in modeling, try to stay away from organic geometry, especially humanoids. Nothing brings animation down as much as blocky, and unrealistic human figure. You might think of importing a premade figure, but you probably shouldn’t. First, you still wont be able to animate it. Second, its all about learning, not using other’s work.

Mapping:

1) After you are done with planning animation, take a digital camera and do a photo hunt for textures. For every texture you might need, make at least three different shots – you’ll be glad you did when you start photoshopping them.
2) Don’t worry if you don’t have much skill with photoshop – you’ll mostly be using just one tool – clone stamp, or healing brush
2) Learn how to use UVW Unwrap modifier. All of your objects should have it applied
3) Never use a flat color for texture – at least add some noise. Bitmap is always the best though.
4) Avoid the textures shipped with max. They might look appealing, but everyone has them, and your animation will look too generic.
5) Add bump maps to your metal surfaces. Metal looks much better with tine scratches, highlights, etc

Lighting:

1) Learn the classic 3-light setup
2) Light Tracer is a really easy way to make realistic lighting, and if you have the computing power to use it, it’s a major plus. Just be sure to tune down the settings while tweaking, and use high quality only for final render.
3) Color lights might look “cool” at first, but be careful– its too easy to abuse them

Animation

1) Learn to use the track & curve editor, its much more convenient than clicking separate keys
2) Make sure the motion is not linear, or it’ll look too unnatural
3) Always add secondary motion. Flex modifier might work well. You can use it even for objects you normally think of as rigid. Its okay to exaggerate the secondary motion a little.
4) Use reactor for large sets of objects. For one or two objects, it might be easier to just do it by hand.
5) Spend time practicing with IK modifiers if you plan to have organic objects moving (humanoids, etc)
6) use the preview feature to see the motion of objects, if the hardware viewports are not updating fast enough

Cameras:

1) Use the rule of thirds to compose your shots. Do not fix your camera target on the main object in your scene. Move it around instead.
2) Add subtle camera movements, but avoid it moving for large distances. In general you should mainly animate the target/zoom of camera, but not the motion of its base.
3) Try keeping each camera shot 3-5 seconds in length. There of course might be exceptions, but intervals of this length are easiest to follow.

Rendering/Tweaking/Post processing

1) Always render your scenes to frames first. Targa format is a good option. Jpegs are smaller, but they lack alpha channel.
2) Leave a week for tweaking. Do a draft and note the things you don’t like/should be changed, etc. Keep a list of these and update it daily, as you re-render the segments.
2) If you don’t have expensive video editing software (premiere or like), photoshop might work well. You can batch process your frames with filters, which gives pretty good results. Use max’s video post to stitch the frames together after you processed them.



Ok, that turned out to be larger than i thought. Sorry if i repeated others/stated obvious/etc. I hope some of the tips are helpful

[...............]

lol- do people actually use Max's renderer?
Mental Ray might be a plus...
@ least use Brazil or the equivalent if you must use Max....

[Salik Syed]

yes i do only cuz i didn't have anything else.... yeah i know about Vray now i've used it it's pretty good and faster too!

hmm.... that virtual desktop thing seems interesting... i'll look in to that!

@lev.... thanks 4 the long post... but i think u put not enough time for animation.. that takes the longest... and i must disagree about mapping taking so long...of course it is extremely imporant but how many objects do you have to map ... not that many... a lot of textures u can get from digital photos, and UVW wrapping is mostly useful on organic models or more compelx model which i usually only have 3-4

[Brian Yip]

I agree with all the points Lev stated and they are very clear.

I just have two comments:

Make sure everyone in your team works!!!! It's very darn hard for a few people to finish the project unless they are extremely skilled.
Second: Light tracer is good only for outdoor scenes. But you also have to keep in mind that if you have tons of polygons in a scene, try your best to fake a light tracer. It takes some time to setup, but it will definitely save your rendering time.
Light tracer is an awesome lighting, but don't overuse it. It will make the scene dull. Takes a long time to render too.

If you have a super fast computer, you can try radiosity for indoor scenes. It gives you beautiful results. However, if you have a slow computer, scratch radiosity off your head. Cos you can just fake it by adding more basic lights in.

For advance lighting, I recommend animators to really sit down and understand what those options do in your scenes. Once you know how they work, you can think of ways to solve your time problem.


Brian


p.s. for modelling, try using splines instead of NURBS. NURBS is great, but it creates high polygon objects that might take you time for rendering.

[Brian Yip]

I don't have brazil. I know it's a good renderer, but we don't have it. I believe it would save my time rendering. saving 1 minute per frame = saving several hours of rendering time!!

It's a very good re-minder for everyone. If anyone can get a faster renderer, you can save a heck lot more time. I highly suggest people doing that.

Brian

[Brian Yip]

Another question bugging is that if we use other renderer and tell autodesk, will they reject the animation?

[djcapelis]

I don't think so... but they shouldn't need to know about it either.

As for a fast render... with high quality raytracing, try any one of the free raytracers: poyray, vafray... etc. They are all extremely speedy at what they do and do it beautifully.

Or just use Blender's... but I've mentioned that already.

[Brian Yip]

comments on previous replies:

2.0 GHz computer with minimum of 1GB Ram is by all means enough. If you have more, that's your luxury. If you have more than one of these powerful machines, please don't tell me you have no time to finish your animation!!!! (I'll wack you with a big stick!!)

No matter what you have, in my opinion, you should use 100% of your system. Just push it to the maximum so you can save as much time as possible. Savage as many computers you can (I will take 1 GHz computer with 256 MB ram.), cos there's something called network rendering. Or you can use multiple computer to render multiple scene, leaving some so you work on other scenes.

It will be cool to have fancy credits. I wish I had that time to do that. If you guys have that much extra time, you guys can think about it. It can give you a good memory later on in your life.