Go to Post The losing alliance should know they lost, admit it, and use the desire to win to push themselves even further. - artdutra04 [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > FIRST > General Forum
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
 
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 11 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Prev Previous Post   Next Post Next
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 20-10-2003, 23:30
Unsung FIRST Hero
Jason Morrella Jason Morrella is offline
Robotics Education and Competition
AKA: J-Mo
no team (RECF)
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 154
Jason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond reputeJason Morrella has a reputation beyond repute
wow - lots of interesting discussion

So many points come to mind; I'll just hit on the ones I can remember and limit this to a list of "ten" comments:

Most of the posts in this thread bring up valid thoughts and observations. Some are a little off - but that is mostly due to some gray areas in how the criteria was presented by FIRST, which I'm sure will be clarified this week and put some false assumptions to rest. And some posts are just not based in reality - such as this not being a championship or should be open to all teams. As Ken, Andy, Dave, and some others have pointed out - once most people step back and actually consider the criteria, they have reached calm and well thought out opinions on it (recognizing pros and cons)- but some people instantly react on emotion without considering the difference between idealistic and realistic.

# 1 - the FIRST Championship is a Championship in EVERY sense of the word, just like any major sports Championship. In every sport, every team gets a chance to advance to the Championship by winning their "regional" division or tournament. Like many sports, FIRST also adds some "wildcard" criteria to add to the field so more teams can participate. Some will ALWAYS be convinced it should be done "their" way, but make no mistake, the FIRST Championship is just that - a Championship with more teams participating than any other competition most can think of - so whoever wins that Championship event or wins any award at that event is truly deserving and should be extremely proud. Just like they should if they achieve any of those recognitions at a Regional event.

# 2 - while 95% of the discussion is productive, those few people who just can't let go of the idealistic yet completely unrealistic "everyone should go, they should let in hundreds of more teams" have the best intentions but need to redirect their energy in more productive ways. 300 teams get in - that's AMAZING. To those who say everyone should get to experience FIRST - everyone DOES - the Regional Competitions are tremendous productions rivaling and exceeding State Championships in any sport. Please, people need to let this go - FIRST holds a larger Championship than any other sport there is. Be thrilled with that, and be thrilled that the Regional Competitions are such a great experience. The Championship is such a small part of the impact FIRST makes - it's the 6 weeks, the teamwork, the regional competitions, the off season events and workshops where teams work together.... these things are 90% of the FIRST experience and are why teams come back. Any team which has lost this focus and feels that the "Championship" event is the "experience" or impact or main motivation of participating in FIRST has forgotten why they got involved and thought the program was so great in the first place.

# 3 - regarding some thoughts saying more teams should get more notice to plan to attend - this system DOES that. Last year 8 teams per regional qualified with only a few weeks notice, this season 6 teams. Meaning over HALF the field (about 10 percent more of the total teams, which hasn't changed in #) will know NOW, months in advance, so they can decide if they want to go and fundraise.

# 4 - as a few students and mentors like Allison very astutely pointed out - NO team only finds out with a couple weeks notice that they get to go the Championship. EVERY team knows right now what circumstances may lead to them qualifying - so as some students pointed out, teams can have the discussion now "IF we qualify, do we want to go?" If the answer is yes, then fundraise now and turn in the bureaucratic paper to get permission now. If you don't qualify - then you are ahead of the game for funding next year, and the trip can always be cancelled with school districts much easier than trying to get last minute approval.

# 5 - the "original" 1992 teams getting a free ride issue: Great example of a great topic in which BOTH sides are basically right and neither side is wrong. While I agree with those who wouldn't give them a free ride (mainly because the students on the teams weren't around back then, and work no harder now than the students on many other teams), those who think it's a good idea have some darn good reasons why also - it's only 6 or 7 teams and not worth losing a sleep over, as someone pointed out. That's a great example of a topic which would be good for teams to voice their thoughts on in the Team Forums so maybe FIRST can see if there is a strong preference one way or the other.

# 6 - the view of some (a few I must say) who actually think this system helps "the rich get richer" or "isn't fair to the rookies".... just not the case. FIRST is getting rid of the 5-point system, which rewarded teams who could afford multiple events in one year, and they created an automatic qualifier for rookie teams, which has NEVER existed (plus rookies can still qualify the others ways). This will guarantee that 30-40 rookies (All Stars plus some other qualifiers) will get the chance to go. That's possibly about 20% of the rookie teams and 10-15% of the entire Championship field.

# 7 - there seems to be an illusion that "even" teams lost their "guaranteed" chance to register this year. Many have pointed out the numbers, that when you take out the 5-point teams and the 6 qualifiers per regional there are probably only around 80 spots left to "open" registration. This means that only 80 "even" teams out of four to five hundred could have open registered this year. So if you're an even team, remember - you had a MUCH better chance of NOT getting in than you did of getting in. They just decided to give teams who haven’t got to attend the championship in the longest time the chance to fill these spots - isn't this what most said they want, for all teams to get the chance to experience the Championship eventually, in a somewhat fair way? (That’s posed to those who understand that no Championship event can ever include everyone - or grow to 500+ teams, which would have the EXACT same problem in a couple years when there are 1500+ teams. And it's SO MANY factors - not just volunteers, space, money, resources, schedule/calendar - all reasons, not one single reason)

# 8 - and this is key, the letter from FIRST said this is a transition, and that the "existing" 5 point system is discontinued now - they are basically telling us that they will still work on improving the system after this year, and are looking forward to constructive feedback, input, and ideas from teams in the off season to help.

# 9 - great discussion. It shows how passionate so many people are about FIRST, how much of an impact and how much so many have gotten through participating (and again, I would propose little of that is a result of the "Championship"), and shows that the future of FIRST is very bright with all the great students and mentors coming out of the program, staying involved, and contributing their ideas and energy. FIRST continues to improve every year, and I have no doubt this year will be even better than last, and next year will be even better than this.

# 10 - While painful (long), I figured I'd stick to my rule of sparing everyone multiple posts and just reply to all the topics that caught my attention in one swoop. To those who made it here, to the end - WAKE UP! Maybe reading this entire post should be an award which qualifies one for the Championship? Thanks for listening to my $.02, multiplied a few times.

#10a - I totally understand if Brandon bans me from posting on CD again, sorry about the length.

Can't wait for the new season - kudos to all for all the energy and hard work you continue to put into your teams...the students are the real winners...and all clichés aside...they are winners because they participate and make it to a regional event with a robot.

Last edited by Jason Morrella : 21-10-2003 at 11:20.
Reply With Quote
 


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Using an Operator Interface with the 2004 EDU RC wirelessly Dave Flowerday Robotics Education and Curriculum 34 19-04-2004 19:06
Championship Qualification - Constructive Criticism Andy Baker Championship Event 7 29-10-2003 16:48
2004 Championship Qualification? Andy Baker Championship Event 9 19-09-2003 12:26
Championship Eligibility Criteria Joe Lambie Rumor Mill 2 26-08-2003 22:25
QotW 6-01-03: The Championship Madison Rumor Mill 13 02-06-2003 06:06


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:03.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi