God

[Marygrace]

Originally posted by Tarsen
I dont follow any of the Judo-Christian religions, im solitary eclectic Wiccan.

Cool, my mom is part wiccan. Ive looked into it, it was fun and all just to explore, but it wasn't for me.

[anna~marie]

God existst! how can u say that He doesnt? seriously do u think that everything just magicaly created itself and its own rules?
to save time for arguing, just PM me is u want to contradict me!
one love, one G od, one way!

[generalbrando]

I haven't read this whole thread, forgive me if there's repetition.

Personally I have never fully adopted any one faith. I use the label agnostic. Agnostic seems to have gray area, but basically what it means in my case is that I have no convictions. I don't believe there is a God and I don't believe there is not a God (hence, I'm not atheist). The only real point I want to make for others to think about is this: it is true that we cannot absolutely prove the existence of God. It is a belief. However, to say that He does not exist is equally unscientific as saying He does exist. We have cannot absolutely prove that He does not exist.

Please don't take my view to be that all scientists should be agnostic. I use 'scientific' only in the root meaning that science means knowledge. I'm saying we lack the real knowledge to justity saying He doesn't exist, so to be athiest on the basis that we don't have evidence for His existence is a contradiction in my mind. I'm not saying atheists are wrong. I'm justing saying that they also believe in something, as was pointed out near the beginning of the thread.

As always, I mean no offense and I respect others' beliefs or lack there of.

[KenWittlief]

it is true that we cannot absolutely prove the existence of God. It is a belief.

not sure I understand this

if you mean 'prove the existance of' like I can prove the existance of my car, or my son

then I dont understand your assertion. If you accept it as true, then in the biblical account, it was proven to Moses that God exists, and to the disciples of Jesus

and to anyone else who has experienced a personal interaction with God - Gods existance has been proven to them

or do you simply mean, those people cant prove it to anyone else, without Gods cooperation?

[generalbrando]

Good point. I mean basically the last thing you said. I'm saying that God's existence is something unproven to most people, hence we can have this discussion. If we all knew for sure that he existed, this thread would serve little purpose, right? So take my words lightly - His existence can be proven, however I have no proof, as many do not.

Does that clear up what I mean?

[KenWittlief]

thats true. If this thread was titled "does the moon exist?" there wouldnt be 6 pages of discussion :c)

[Ryan Albright]

hey sorry guys i havent posted in this thread for awhile, I have been trying to catch up and if i am repetive...forgive me.

On the point of What God looks like:
He is a spirit, He came down to earth in a earthly form to die for are sins.

Big Bang Theory;
So if we start at x how does the big bang come along. You have to have somethign to start something. Its cause and effect, The big bang could not start from nothign you have to have a cause to get a effect (i.e. big bang)

God is the ultimate being he brought us hear and one day he will come back to take his chosen home. If you know anything about the christian faith there are Calvinist (coming down from John Calvin ) and there is Arminist (sorry spelling sucks). Calvinist believe that Before the begining of time that God pre-destined people that will be save and people that wont . Arminist beleive that you can choose to believe in God or not. For me personally i am a Calvinist. God said that he knows everythign about us, how many hairs on our head, when we will die. I also believe thatwhen we are destined to die we will no matter were we are. I coule be sitting in a airplane on the crapper anywhere.

[anna~marie]

God spoke, and BANG!!! it appeared

[shyra1353]

i havent voted because i dont really know what i think and its one of those areas in my life where im still undecided ... but going through some old emails, i found this and thought that it related to this topic:

Finally, The Truth on National TV.

Billy Graham's daughter was being interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?"(regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said "I believe that God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman that He is, I believe that He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand that He leave us alone?" (In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.)

* Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body was found recently) complained she didn't want any prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school...the Bible that says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said, OK.

* Then, Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide) And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we said OK.

* Then, someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued (There's a big difference between disciplining and beating, smacking, humiliating, kicking, etc.) And we said, OK.

* Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said, OK.

* Then some wise school board member said, since boys will be boys and they're going to do it anyway, let's give our sons all the condoms they want, so they can have all the fun they desire, and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school. And we said, OK.

* Then some of our top elected officials said it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs. And agreeing with them, we said it doesn't matter to me what anyone, including the President, does in private as long as I have a job and the economy is good.

* And then someone said let's print magazines with pictures of nude women and call it wholesome, down-to-earth appreciation for the beauty of the female body. And we said, OK.

* And then someone else took that appreciation a step further and published pictures of nude children and then stepped further still by making them available on the internet. And we said OK, they're entitled to their free speech.

* And then the entertainment industry said, let's make TV shows and movies that promote profanity, violence, and illicit sex. And let's record music that encourages rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes. And we said it's just entertainment, it has no adverse effect, and nobody takes it seriously anyway, so go right ahead.

* Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves. Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

* Dear God,
Why didn't you save the little girl killed in her classroom?"
Sincerely, Concerned Student...
AND THE REPLY
Dear Concerned Student,
I am not allowed in schools.
Sincerely, God.

* Funny how simple it is for people to trash God and then wonder why the world's going to hell.
* Funny how we believe what the newspapers say, but question what the Bible says.
* Funny how everyone wants to go to heaven provided they do not have to believe, think, say, or do anything the Bible says.
* Funny how someone can say "I believe in God" but still follow Satan who, by the way, also "believes" in God.
* Funny how we are quick to judge but not to be judged.
* Funny how you can send a thousand 'jokes' through e-mail and they spread like wildfire, but when you start sending messages regarding the Lord, people think twice about sharing.
* Funny how the lewd, crude, vulgar and obscene pass freely through cyberspace,but the public discussion of God is suppressed in the school and workplace.
* Funny how someone can be so fired up for Christ on Sunday, but be an invisible Christian the rest of the week.
* Are you laughing?
* Funny how when you go to forward this message, you will not send it to many on your address list because you're not sure what they believe, or what they WILL think of you for sending it to them.
* Funny how I can be more worried about what other people think of me than what God thinks of me.
* Are you thinking? Pass it on if you think it has merit. If not then just discard it....no one will know that you did.
* But, if you discard this thought process, then don't sit back and complain about what bad shape the world is in!

[Tarsen]

ill have to more or less agree, i have little respect for people who try to push blame off on "God" or some other metaphysical being for something they did, or did not do, and the consequences of such. we have free will, and our decisions are ours to make. thus the responsibility lays on us to do right, not "God".

[DanL]

Originally posted by Ryan_team710
hey sorry guys i havent posted in this thread for awhile, I have been trying to catch up and if i am repetive...forgive me.

On the point of What God looks like:
He is a spirit, He came down to earth in a earthly form to die for are sins.

Big Bang Theory;
So if we start at x how does the big bang come along. You have to have somethign to start something. Its cause and effect, The big bang could not start from nothign you have to have a cause to get a effect (i.e. big bang)

Arrg, this is the most common argument used against the Big Bang theory.

According to your beliefs, God is infinite - He transcends time. This means that you believe the property of being infinite exists. Yet, in your argument, you disprove the Big Bang by stating that something had to create it. In layman's terms, you're saying that the Big Bang can't be real because something had to create it - matter/energy/whatever is not infinite. At the same time, however, you admit that it is possible for something (God) to be infinite. Which is it? Is it possible for something to have to property of being infinite, or is it not possible for something to have the property of being infinite?

Originally posted by shyra1353
Finally, The Truth on National TV.

Billy Graham's daughter was being interviewed on the Early Show and Jane Clayson asked her "How could God let something like this happen?"(regarding the attacks on Sept. 11).

Anne Graham gave an extremely profound and insightful response. She said "I believe that God is deeply saddened by this, just as we are, but for years we've been telling God to get out of our schools, to get out of our government and to get out of our lives. And being the gentleman that He is, I believe that He has calmly backed out. How can we expect God to give us His blessing and His protection if we demand that He leave us alone?" (In light of recent events...terrorists attack, school shootings, etc.)
....

Alright, this post really upset me. Not only is it terribly biased, but it is full of half-truths and it outright insults people who are not Christian by forcing Christian values into their faces.

I'm not going to go over every point the post raises, but I will flame the most insulting ones.

* Let's see, I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare (she was murdered, her body was found recently) complained she didn't want any prayer in our schools, and we said OK. Then, someone said you better not read the Bible in school...the Bible that says thou shalt not kill, thou shalt not steal, and love your neighbor as yourself. And we said, OK.

Guess what? Every other major belief system throughout history has said the same exact thing!! Has that ever stopped people from killing? NO! The reason the Bible has no place in our schools is because contrary to the beliefs of some ultra-conservatives in this country, not everyone is Christian! Think of it in these terms: would you be offended if every day I shoved my Athiestic beliefs into your face? Of course you would! For the same reason, in our public schools, we do not shove Christian beliefs into the faces of Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims, Daoists, Native Americans, etc.

Then, Dr. Benjamin Spock said we shouldn't spank our children when they misbehave because their little personalities would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem (Dr. Spock's son committed suicide) And we said, an expert should know what he's talking about so we said OK.

Listen to how ridiculous this argument is. The author attributes this entire practice to one particular person whos son tilts the argument into the author's favor. SOCIETY DECIDED THIS, NOT ONE PERSON WHOSE CIRCUMSTANCES COINCIDENTALLY REINFORCE YOUR ARGUMENT!

Then, someone said teachers and principals better not discipline our children when they misbehave. And the school administrators said no faculty member in this school better touch a student when they misbehave because we don't want any bad publicity, and we surely don't want to be sued (There's a big difference between disciplining and beating, smacking, humiliating, kicking, etc.) And we said, OK.

What exactly is the author talking about here? If he isn't talking about beating, smacking, humilating, kicking, etc., exactly what kind of discipline IS he talking about? As far as I know, detention, suspensions, and expulsions are still used everywhere....

Then someone said, let's let our daughters have abortions if they want, and they won't even have to tell their parents. And we said, OK.

I'm not going into the abortion debate, but notice how this point is a blatant ad hominem argument - the way it is phrased makes it seem like "our [teenage] daughters" are the only ones getting abortions.

* Now we're asking ourselves why our children have no conscience, why they don't know right from wrong, and why it doesn't bother them to kill strangers, their classmates, and themselves. Probably, if we think about it long and hard enough, we can figure it out. I think it has a great deal to do with "WE REAP WHAT WE SOW."

Funny... as I recall, there have only been around 20 or 30 kids at most who have killed strangers, classmates, and themselves with no conscience... now, exactly how many of "our children" are there actually? A few hundred million? 20 out of a billion is not a big percentage at all. Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying that Columbine was completely insignificant. I'm saying the way this argument is phrased makes it sound like the great corruption of society is forcing ALL of "our children" to be the Trenchcoat Mafia, which if was the case, you'd probably be dead by now.


Again, what really upset me about this quote is it is completely biased and phrased in half-truths (actually, more like quarter-truths or 20/1,000,000 truths). It is violently Christian. It makes it sound as if the Bible has held the answers to every single problem in society and the reason problems exist is because we rejected the Bible. It completely insults every other set of beliefs. In short, keep this trash out of here. If you want to have a discussion, please use intelligent arguments NOT filled with decieving half-truths.

[Marygrace]

I have been hestitating for awhile to put my own opinion about religion in this thread. Religion has been the cause of most of my family's problems. My mother is a Christian Wiccan (WHich i think i have posted once already), my sister and father are full-throttle christians, my brother is morman, and I dont believe in relgion. Dont get me wrong, i believe in a higher power, never doubted that there was one. Religion was not something i want to dedicate my life to. Im not willing to have people to tell me whether or not im going to hell because i made a mistake. Nor do i want to be a part of something that tottally shuts out anything that does not believe in what they believe in.
My family was torn apart by relgion. My sister and mother haven;t talked in about five years all because my sister doesnt understand wut my mom believes in, instead she chose fear and didn;t bother looking into it. (Knowledge really is power) And my father disaproves of my brothers choice of belief. I realize that a lot of people out there only have their religion, it is the only thing getting them through this thing called life........

.......I just wish people wouldn't try to force their beliefs upon other people and they would get rid of the thinking that their way is the only way to go.

[Matt Attallah]

I think there is. If not - than i'm just playin' it safe!

[srjjs]

Originally posted by Matt Attallah
I think there is. If not - than i'm just playin' it safe!

Good point. (If certain people are to be believed) Those who don't believe in God will go to hell if there really is one, but just die if they're right. However, those who believe go to heaven if they're right, and if there really isn't a god, they just die.

I'll take my chances, but it doesn't hurt to keep that in mind.

[Ken Leung]

Originally posted by srjjs
Those who don't believe in God will go to hell if there really is one, but just die if they're right.

Seems rather unfair to cultures who were never exposed to the concept of God.