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Unread 08-01-2004, 21:52
Venkatesh Venkatesh is offline
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Re: Design Sharing

I just took a look at what team 68 had constructed last year. It was most impressive. Kudos to TT.

I believe that if a team constructs such an awesome monstrosity that is not clearly against the rules, there should be some sort of appeals process to allow such designs to be permitted. Many teams would have loved to block the entire field last year, but how many tried? I think that there might be some merit to a general FIRST-wide vote on such an issue.

I would loved to have the chance to go up against something like that. How would one fight it? I think one could try to go under the arms (if there was room) or to try and force TT out of that position by creating some sort of stacking havoc. It is just like a wall in Jezzball, that good old game.

On the other hand, a general FIRST-wide vote might not fit the ideas of FIRST very well. We would start down the path of lawyers and such. The idea of questioning the rules of FIRST is like questioning referees in sports. There is some validity in some cases, but on the whole such a thing would most likely hurt an organization.

Can anyone think of a way to implement an appeals process for something like this without creating a burecratic machine?
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Unread 08-01-2004, 23:03
KenWittlief KenWittlief is offline
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Re: Design Sharing

I think an appeals process would make things worse

as it stands now, the judgement of the head referee is final. If there was an appeals process, then what does that do to a 3 day competition? If someone apeals a call or decision on the second day, do we stop the whole competition until the call is appealed to a higher authority?

I was totally unaware of team 68s giant spider legs last year - I read the whole thread, and in my opinion, if the wings were deployed and a bot pushed against them, then clearly they were using the dividing bar to hold their position on the top

If I remember correctly, FIRST clarified the rules so that nothing could reach over the side - if this was in response to their bot then I take this as an indication that FIRST felt the bot failed the intent of the rules, but rather than argue sematics, they issued a ruling that made their position clear.

personally I think it was a mute point anyway, those spider arms would have a rotational torque on them and they would have twisted up like pretzels if a bot slammed into them, they would have twisted along their length (like a strand of DNA) and supplied no holding force anyway.

the bottom line for this whole issue of meeting the requirements of the rules, if there is any doubt, ask FIRST - they will tell you before you start building anything whether your idea violates the intent of the rules.

and if you really think your team is the ONLY one out of 950 to come up with your idea, and you dont ask because you are afraid of giving your idea away

well then, you are taking a big risk, your gonna win big, or lose big.

Last edited by KenWittlief : 08-01-2004 at 23:10.
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Unread 14-01-2004, 20:33
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Re: Design Sharing

I wanted to add to my comment earlier because it only refers to designs during the build season...

I think that it would be beneficial for teams to share their past mechanisms, designs, ideas, etc with other teams. That's to say - starting after the Nat's or after all the off season competitions - I think teams should be more free about their secrets especially since someone could have walked up to the pit and found out for themselves (for most things, not all). My reason for this view point falls into the same concept Andy B. discussed - raising the bar throughout the teams as well as giving that rookie team without eingineers or guidance something to get them going (physically or mentally).

As a side note - some of you who are adicts and read too much of these forums might think, based on my past posts, that I apply this philosophy to my knowledge of Beatty's past creations without reguard to their secrecy. I have not divulged all knowledge and don't intend to. The things I have discussed I believe were obvious enough for anyone to understand by visiting the pits.
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