Knocking out Doubler Ball

[mightywombat]

I read the rules and I know it says that no bot can score or de-score the 5-point balls but since a bot can put a doulber ball on a goal does that also mean that they can take a doubler ball OFF an opponents goal? What do you think?

[RBrandy]

I would assume this, because it does not say anything about the de-scoring of the multiplyer ball. My team assumed you could. I hope this helps.

[Ricky Q.]

I would agree that the 2x's balls can be knocked off the stationary or mobile goals as rule <G18> only states that

ROBOTS cannot SCORE or de-SCORE SMALL balls.

So my team has concluded that they are free to be knocked around as you please.

[mightywombat]

Yeah. Thats kinda what I thought but I wasn't too sure.

[jneumiller]

I'm trying to keep a good attitude here.....BUT!!!!!!

Remember some of Dean's parting comments.....we're engineers, scientists, and technologists. Let's read the rules and listen to the guidance as if we were....not like we're lawyers. (YUCK!)

See you on the high ground.

Jim

[Wetzel]

My teams interpretation is the 2x balls are free game for robots to grab and place.

Wetzel

[Ken Leung]

Originally Posted by mightywombat

I read the rules and I know it says that no bot can score or de-score the 5-point balls but since a bot can put a doulber ball on a goal does that also mean that they can take a doubler ball OFF an opponents goal? What do you think?

It is legal to take the 2X ball off the opponent's goal, but, consider this:

If you are using an arm to grab the 2x ball, as long as the ball is in your robot's arm, it is considered a part of the robot. When opponent's human player shoot a small ball toward the goal you are taking the 2X ball away from, and hit the 2X ball, you will be considered goaltending.

That could be an interesting part of strategy. If you are going for the opponents' 2X ball on a goal, you better watch out for their human player because if you don't, you may get the penality for goaltending. Whatever decive you design for that task have to do it quick and fast.

[Jim Giacchi]

Originally Posted by Ken Leung

It is legal to take the 2X ball off the opponent's goal, but, consider this:

If you are using an arm to grab the 2x ball, as long as the ball is in your robot's arm, it is considered a part of the robot. When opponent's human player shoot a small ball toward the goal you are taking the 2X ball away from, and hit the 2X ball, you will be considered goaltending.

Yeah, but if the 2x ball is on top of the goal, its impossible to get a small ball into it anyway, so the Multiplier is already goaltending. I don't see how your robot, lifting the ball off of the goal could be considered goaltending, since the goals blocked to begin with.

[abeD]

another strat with the big ball is to take one and cap their stationary goal

How are they gonna get balls in if their is a ball blockin it?

of course they could remove it but that also takes time.

[Ken Leung]

Originally Posted by Jim Giacchi

Yeah, but if the 2x ball is on top of the goal, its impossible to get a small ball into it anyway, so the Multiplier is already goaltending. I don't see how your robot, lifting the ball off of the goal could be considered goaltending, since the goals blocked to begin with.

I am only concerned in the situation where it satisfy the following condition:

1. GOALTENDING – A ROBOT cannot interfere with a SMALL ball on its downward flight toward a goal or within a goal.

2. <G21> While a ROBOT is holding a LARGE Ball, that ball will be considered an extension of the ROBOT.

3. <G20> ROBOTS cannot GOALTEND either the Mobile or Stationary Goals. If a ROBOT GOALTENDs or de- SCORES any SMALL ball, the referee will throw a green penalty flag and the opponent’s final score will be increased by twice the value of that SMALL ball.

Goaltending only happens when a ROBOT interfer with a small ball on its doward flight toward a goal or within a goal. When the robot is holding a large ball, the large ball is a part of the robot. When the robot ISN'T holding a large ball, it ISN'T a part of the robot.

[mightywombat]

hmmm.. Thats interesting. I never thought about intentionally capping opponents goals. I was just thinking of removing their doublers... Although a good strategy I think intentionally capping opponents goals might be a little dirty.

[pauluffel]

Capping an opponents goal would not be "dirty". The ability to cap your opponents goal adds alot of texture to the game, because capping your opponents goal improves their score no matter what, but it can be done it a way that limits their ability to continue to increase their score.
Because of the complexity of a strategy involving helping your opponent to defeat them, I hope to see this done throughout the competition.

[roknjohn]

I believe, though, that the potential exists for you to be penalized while attempting to cap an opponents goal. If a small ball, thrown toward the goal by your opponent, strikes the large ball that you are holding (or strikes another part of your robot) before you have time to release it, that would be considered goaltending, IMHO.

[abeD]

I think that the spirit of the rule was so that someone wouldnt make a bot that would just camp out infront of the opponents goal and cover the opening.

[Thulium]

Well, if you were to take the rules of the game explicitly, this is the situation that I can see us all being in:

It WOULD be goaltending if your robot were touching the multiplier and a small ball were to contact it on the way down.

Also, you would have to be very careful about how you approached removing your oponent's multiplier. It is possible, especially with those flexible PVC pipes, that you may accidently remove a small ball from their goal while lifting the multiplier. If you were instead trying to grab the multipler, you would then be in danger of grabbing the goal (illegal).

But in the end what it all comes down to is this:
It was clearly stated that the rules this year were to taken more implicitly than explicitly and that the intent of the rule be the main focus. I would play the game as you see logical and I am imagining that the new lenient rules will lead to more lenient, fun stressfree enjoymeent of this thing we call FIRST.