Out Of Money already! - <R71>

[Joe Johnson]

The rules make mention of an "additional hardware list"

5.3.1 FIRST Provided Kit of Parts

FIRST provides each team a Kit of Parts. Only the exact parts provided in the Kit (or their exact replacement) are considered as Kit Parts. Some Kit Parts may legally be used in additional quantities. Additional quantities of these parts are considered to be Additional Parts and not Kit Parts. The official list of Kit Parts and quantities appears in a separate section of this manual titled

The Kit.

But I did not see any "Additional quantities" listed anywhere in the kit document.

Based on the "flow chart" anything that is "designed to conduct electricity?" is subject to the $200 limit.

This is not a not a lot of money to buy anything that conducts electricity that is not supplied in the kit.

Think about it.

Wire? good 10 gauge wire is about $1 a foot.
10 Turn Pots? cheap ones from $13 from digi-key -- the ones I LIKE to use are about $28
Shaft Encoders? I was planning on using Bourns 3950 series, $52 each
What about Yaw Rate Sensors? None in the kit this year -- $30 each from Future Electronics -- $70 if they are mounted on a small PCB.
Accelerometers? Another $10 for the chip -- $30 on a PCB.

I don't know if this is just something that fell through the cracks or what but it doesn't seem like we have enough money to do anything interesting.

I must have it wrong, but I don't see my error.

Anyone have a thought on this?

Joe J.

[NoRemorse]

im pretty sure its a $200 limit per item

[Jim Zondag]

Joe,
Yeah, I came to the same realization on this this afternoon.
In my opinion, this is an oversight on the part of FIRST.
Per their previous intent, the $200 limit used to be on the custom circuit box to keep people from adding PowerPC boards and the like.
Pots, switches, and wire have always been "free"
We will officially question this rule.

[Gary Dillard]

Actually, Pots, switches, etc. were not free last year; they fell under the $3500 total limit as they do this year.

Rule R77 uses an example of buying an additional speed controller above the quantity in the kit, and it falls under the $3500 limit; however since speed controllers are $115 each they would exceed the $100 per component limit if they were counted as electronics. It seems this was an oversight.

[andy]

Yea the sealed industrial encoders we were considering run $150 a pop!

We need at least two!

good luck!
-Andy

[Andy A.]

I belive that anything that came in the kit that isn't ment for the CCB only falls under the $3500 limit.

The $200 limit must only apply to the CCB, and not the rest of the bot. Same for the $100 component rule. The manual states that we may buy additional Victors from IF, and I can't belive that they would limit us to 4.

You're right Joe, this is a oversite by FIRST. There is no way we could do anything interesting if all we can spend on basic electronics is $200. Just think, between wire, crimps and solder there must be $100 worth of material alone on the average bot. Add in 2 extra Victors and a few spikes, and you are way over.

Im sure this will be in the next update.

-Andy A.

[Joe Ross]

Last year the limit was $400. I assume they lowered the limit because with the new control system, there is much less of a reason for a second microprocessor. However, I have a feeling that FIRST didn't realize the consequences of cutting it in half.

[Doug Traster]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

The rules make mention of an "additional hardware list"

I'm 100% sure (as I suspect you are) that the "electronic parts" are not actually those that "conduct electricity", but rather those that are used in a custom electronic circuit (i.e. additional sensors, uCs, etc). I'm certain that their intent was the same as last year -- wire, terminals and IFI parts do not count against the $200 only against the $3500. I just checked the official Q&A list (already at 31 unanswered questions) and this question has not yet been posted. If it hasn't been posted by tomorrow morning, I'll take care of it, but you were the one who first voiced it so please do the honors.

[Dave Flowerday]

Originally Posted by Joe Ross

Last year the limit was $400. I assume they lowered the limit because with the new control system, there is much less of a reason for a second microprocessor. However, I have a feeling that FIRST didn't realize the consequences of cutting it in half.

Last year the limit on custom electronics was $200. They upped it from the $100 limit in 2002. Nothing has changed as far as I can tell (with the exception Joe mentioned - with wire etc. not being free).

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Dave Flowerday

Last year the limit on custom electronics was $200. They upped it from the $100 limit in 2002. Nothing has changed as far as I can tell (with the exception Joe mentioned - with wire etc. not being free).

Nevermind, you are right. I mixed up the $400 limit on any one component and the $200 limit on electrical components.