Make the bar lower to get on?

[Amanda Morrison]

Alright guys, come on. Let's quit bashing an idea, and instead maybe offer some advice and input that can be used constructively.

I would assume tampering with the bar would be illegal, and would probably lead to disqualifications. The only reason it can lower is for safety reasons when getting the bots off the bar. Maybe this wouldn't be such a good idea for design, but hey, it's an idea nonetheless.

[Gadget470]

Impossible?

I think it's far from impossible.
Take a look at what is needed:
A rotary motion device to turn counterclockwise (assuming that is the direction to lower).
A method to line up to a target.
An end-effector of same shape is device needing turned.

I think we've done things harder. Maybe not so much as precise.. but hey, we made things that balanced on a teeter totter just fine.

I also think that it could be a neat strategy.

Consider the rule stating to be hanging you must be fully supported by the bar. It doesn't say "the highest piece of your robot must be at a height of 10' relative to the carpet. If team X can lower the bar, then it would stop any Low-Hanging teams from getting points. (such as the teams which intend to only hang 1-12" from the ground).

Relax on the bashing. Let them update if they need to. It's a valid point.

[the fabricator]

i agree with the last guy, u start goin on about gracious professionalism and ur the 1 being ungracious and unprofessional, trashing him and sayin all that wow, its just a game, win or lose, i'm just here to build, meet new people and win, calm down its all gravy

[the fabricator]

i agree with the last guy, u start goin on about gracious professionalism and ur the 1 being ungracious and unprofessional, trashing him and sayin all that wow, its just a game, win or lose, i'm just here to build, meet new people and have fun, calm down its all gravy




Sorry i made a typo in my last post

[jimfortytwo]

I would really love to see a game incorperating precision manipulations like that, and i have to believe its only a few years off. I don't believe, however, thats its here yet . To pull it off would be very professional, and to readily accept its (almost certain) ban is very gracious. Too bad. I think Dean and friends just couldn't resist showing off how cool their new toy is.

I refuse to believe anyone out there regularly uses the phrases 'stupid' 'ignorant' 'amature' or 'gracious professionalism problem' in their team meetings to describe their peers.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Cory

Wow... the ignorance here is astounding. The whole idea of lowering the bar is both ungracious and unprofessional. Do you think FIRST intended for that to happen? Not to mention the fact that it's impossible. The starter of the thread here is the one with gracious professionalism issues, not us.

Does this change the game any more then tipping the goal did in 1996? Even though many teams couldn't score after the goal was tipped, it was still allowed. Do you think FIRST expected teams to pass the balls through the goal faster then they could count in 1994? And yet they didn't make that illegal. Finding unique solutions is not wrong.

Rather then commenting on the ignorance or professionalism of the poster, take the time to say why you think it would be illegal (or legal), and try to back it up with rules (preferable) or previous experience.

[Matt Leese]

As I told Joe when he asked me my opinion on it, I believe that it would be illegal to modify the height of the goal during a match. My main reasoning behind this is that it was stated during Kickoff that the only reason for allowing the goal height to be modified was to ease robots being removed from the bar. That seems to me to be a statement meaning that it can't be used to ease scoring.

Matt

[Dan9874123]

Ok THESE ARE THE FACTS
The bar is 10 feet high during the game period.
And the purpose for being able to lower it is so obvious it's not even funny.
Think about it, you try geting a 130 pound object of a bar 10 feet in the air, it's like asking for an accident. The whole purpose of the lowering of the bar is so you can remove the bots safely.

[tkwetzel]

There is nothing that says the bar cannot change height during the match.

[Kevin Kolodziej]

There are no bad ideas.

I would love to see a robot that could do this. It would not be hard to do at all. They did say that the bar would be lowered at the end of the match to assist in removing robots...but I don't recall them saying it couldn't be lowered during the match (my memory is very faulty though - I was excited to see the bar back!). I'd say its a valid strategy until it is deemed illegal, but it will most likely be addressed in an update.

On a side note, just think of the dynamics of the game if the bar started at 10' and lowered to 6' or the other way around - if it started high, you'd have to accomodate for less space in which to hang...and if it rose, you'd have to get there before its out of your reach. You could even bring back the time points from 2001 because it would move at a set rate, thus you'd know the height at 30 seconds, 1 minute, etc. and be able to give more points depending on when a team hung.

[Greg Powers]

I would not expect FIRST to allow it.

And it will be especially hard to program/build it to be able to use a screwdriver anyways if they don’t release the specs of position/size of the bar raising mechanism.

Has anyone actually asked FIRST about this?
It would be nice to have things like this clarified before we start building.
Particularly whether or not a bar attaching mechanism can assume the bar height to remain constant. I would hate to have a key function of our bot rendered useless durring competition because it was built under a false assumption.

[Jeremy_Mc]

Originally Posted by tkwetzel

There is nothing that says the bar cannot change height during the match.

Except common sense.

Instead of trying to look for what's NOT there, try looking at what IS there. They specifically mentioned in the kickoff it was for removing hanging robots. Do they REALLY need to say "BUT YOU CAN'T USE THIS DURING A MATCH"?

Honestly, good idea, but you really should think things through before posting about them.

[Ken Leung]

Originally Posted by Jeremy_Mc

Except common sense.

Instead of trying to look for what's NOT there, try looking at what IS there. They specifically mentioned in the kickoff it was for removing hanging robots. Do they REALLY need to say "BUT YOU CAN'T USE THIS DURING A MATCH"?

Honestly, good idea, but you really should think things through before posting about them.

FIRST did not make the ability to raise or lower the bar part of the competition. Just like the screws that's used to fasten the rest of the field together. Just because it is there does not mean you should use it to give yourself advantages. Watch the kickoff video carefully. They specifically said the raising and lowering is not part of the game. Look at the blue print. The 10' bar is what you are supposed to build and test your robot on, nothing more.


Consider this issue concluded. No more need to be said about this topic. Thanks.

[Aignam]

If any team out there is a firm believer in this method, by all means, design for it! I think, however, that you will be quite dissapointed after your first match, assuming you make it past inspection.