Robots Hanging from the Floor

[Jeremy_Mc]

Originally Posted by generalbrando

We thought about it. We're concentrating on drive right now, so no conclusions.

I have an intersting question to add on. If you grab the bar and lift yourself and you're off the carpet and the object supporting you is the bar... (according to the rule that says something like "if you would fall if it was removed, it is supporting you), Would it then be ok if you were still on the side of the platform? (If you're confused by what I mean, imagine the bot on the side of the platform. it grabs the bar and pulls up 1 inch. It's now pressing on the side of the platform pretty well) I could see a lot of teams bypassing the problem of getting up there and fighting the traffic.

If I understand you correctly, I think that would still be considered as you being on the floor.

I think that's another question to throw on the Q&A forums...

[generalbrando]

I guess I could edit my last post, but...

I watched the animation again and you'll notice that a robot grabs the bar from the floor and lifts up. It doesn't drag on the side or anything, so I'm still not sure if that's a problem, however you are allowed to be hanging over the carpet (as long as the animation wasn't wrong!).

BTW - can someone put this question up on the FIRST board? I can't get into it since I don't have the password for our team. Thanks

[generalbrando]

Upon re-reading the rules, it appears that on page 2 of "The Game" it states that my little idea wouldn't work. However, I think the intention of the rule was not to limit the hanging in this specific case, so I would still like a clarification.

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by generalbrando

Upon re-reading the rules, it appears that on page 2 of "The Game" it states that my little idea wouldn't work. However, I think the intention of the rule was not to limit the hanging in this specific case, so I would still like a clarification.

To my knowledge, there is no rule that prevents being on the floor (the carpet), reaching the horizontal bar and lifting your robot from this position to qualify for HANGING.

Please quote the rule you think disallows this and explain if your case if it is not obvious from the rule you quote.

As I read the rules, I don't see that it is illegal.

Joe J.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Joe Johnson

To my knowledge, there is no rule that prevents being on the floor (the carpet), reaching the horizontal bar and lifting your robot from this position to qualify for HANGING.

Please quote the rule you think disallows this and explain if your case if it is not obvious from the rule you quote.

As I read the rules, I don't see that it is illegal.

Joe J.

I think the question could be rephrased as "if I lift from the floor but not so high I clear the platform, am I still hanging?" Obviously a robot in that position is placing a substantial force on the platform, but it is all side load. The vertical force to support the robot would all come from the bar.

I didn't see anything in the rules against it. You can't grab the vertical pole but I didn't see anything saying you can't touch it. I didn't see anything about not touching the side of the platform either. But then again I tend not to see stuff I'm not looking for, and that was not one of the things I looked for. (I hadn't thoght of it yet) So I'm willing to be corrected on this.

If it IS acceptable, then it opens up more real estate on the bar and you could concievably get all four robots on. It also relieves a lot of my concerns about lifting from the floor, because then I don't have my robot trying to imitate a wrecking ball.

[Mr. Van]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

I think the question could be rephrased as "if I lift from the floor but not so high I clear the platform, am I still hanging?" Obviously a robot in that position is placing a substantial force on the platform, but it is all side load. The vertical force to support the robot would all come from the bar.

The HANGING definition (4.3.1) is that the robot must not be touching the platforms and SUPPORTED by the horizontal bar. I would interpret "touching" to be "in contact with any part of" so that include the side, top or bottom of the platform. I believe the SPIRIT of the whole hanging thing is to see robots that can swing freely from the horizontal bar - not touching anything else (except incidental contact with the side poles).

-Mr. Van
Coach, 599
RoboDox

[ttedrow]

4.3 The Game
4.3.1 Definitions...

HANGING - A Robot is considered HANGING from the Pull-Up bar if it is directly SUPPORTED by the horizontal bar and is not touching the carpet, platforms, or goal.

Any questions?

[Steve W]

Lookn at the definition of hanging. It says that you must be clear of platform, so if you are touching the side of the platform you are then touching the platform which is against the rules

[generalbrando]

Yes, but I think the intention was not to limit this case where you are off the carpet but touching the side of the platform (not being supported by it). I would still like a clarification just to be sure they won't allow it!

::edit::

To clarify: I think the intention was to say that you must up in the air, not on the platform surface. This is what I mean by this thought of varried intention. Note that I am not arguing this to be true - I am questioning it.

[Joe Johnson]

Originally Posted by generalbrando

Yes, but I think the intention was not to limit this case where you are off the carpet but touching the side of the platform (not being supported by it). I would still like a clarification just to be sure they won't allow it!

Again with the allow vs. dis-allow! IT IS ALLOWED <-- as far as I can see there is NO RULE AGAINST IT which is the same thing.

Will you be considered HANGING? Words mean what words mean. If you are touching the platform (its sides, its top, or even its BOTTOM I suppose), the you are NOT HANGING.

I hate raising my voice, but sometimes folks need to be SHOUTED AT.

Joe J.

P.S. On a lighter note:
Q: What if you snagged a thread of the carpet on your robot and it stuck to you as you lifted, would your be HANGING?

A: Yes but you would be disqualified for damage to the field and you may also get gigged for being an entanglement threat ;-)

[ttedrow]

generalbrando,

Where did you get the "intention part of this rule"? I think NOT TOUCHING THE PLANTFORM is self explanatory.

Please see this post for more information

[generalbrando]

I don't want to continue to argue the rule, however I would just like to say that I'm not trying to be sneaky, backward, and/or annoying. I understand what you are saying, and I stated my opinion and I would still ask the question on the FIRST board. Please do not get yourself worked up because of this and please be professional when you post. Things like this have snow-balled in the past and good discussions have been closed due to behavior. I know my idea is obviously backward and my logic may only make sense to me, but there's no need for you to stress yourself about my insanity! I'll leave this one alone now. (That means no one needs to post to tell me I'm wrong - I'm out, so continue on with the original question!)

Please also see the edit in my post above.

[Gadget470]

What Joe is indirectly saying:

You may grab the bar and be touching the side of the platform. That is not illegal. However, it does not constitute as HANGING and therefore would not give you the points for HANGING.

Points for HANGING Robots: 50.
Points for Robots Holding the Bar but being mostly supported by a field piece: 0.

Hanging and Holding/Touching are different.

[Jeff Waegelin]

I think this particular question has been answered. Read Joe Johnson's or Gadget470's posts, they gave pretty decisive answers. No more discussion is needed, and definitely no more arguing about this rule is needed.

[Solace]

Originally Posted by generalbrando

I guess I could edit my last post, but...

I watched the animation again and you'll notice that a robot grabs the bar from the floor and lifts up. It doesn't drag on the side or anything, so I'm still not sure if that's a problem, however you are allowed to be hanging over the carpet (as long as the animation wasn't wrong!).

BTW - can someone put this question up on the FIRST board? I can't get into it since I don't have the password for our team. Thanks

although the bot in the animation did in fact hang from the bar directly from the floor, you will also notice that it rebelled a lot against the laws of physics. In reality, in order to do it you would need a longer arm that was capable of attaching itself to the bar at different angles (as you would never be directly in line).