re designing old mechiniism

[Andrew Dahl]

(from a student member of the team


can a preivous years mechinism be drastically modified ( same basic structural parts but differently configured) and incorperated into the new robot (1 pistion instead of two- move to a non articulate wrist- different sized hoops to grab ball)-]

its the same in concept just differently put together



team 497 info guru

[Jeff Waegelin]

Let me point your attention to Rule R09 from section 5, The Robot, of the FIRST Rulebook:

<R09> Teams must fabricate and/or assemble all custom parts and assembled mechanisms on the robot by the
2004 team after the start of the Kick-off. Mechanisms from previous year’s robots may not be used,
however, individual off-the-shelf components from previous year’s robots may be re-used to save the cost
of re-purchase of these parts IF they meet ALL of the 2004 Additional Parts and Materials Rules.
• If you do use previous years’ components, their costs must be included in the 2004 cost accounting,
and applied to the overall cost limit.
• You may not use previous years’ motors in addition to those provided in the 2004 Kit. You may
use previous years’ motors as direct replacements for those provided, however they must be the
same identical motor as in the 2004 Kit.
• You may not use previous years Robot Controllers or Victor 883 Speed Controllers.

So, you can reuse any off-the-shelf parts that were in that mechanism. However, you may NOT use that mechanism as a whole again, even if it is modified. If you'd read this section of the manual more carefully, you would have seen this very clear distinction.

[Andrew Dahl]

yes the manual was read and debated ad infinitum by the team

And by your interpretation everything on your bot must be brand new design so you could not fabricate the same drive train as you have used in the previous years

as long as we go buy the same aluminum stock/ and order new busihngs and pins and order a new piston to power it that EVERY OTHER team has access to getting making it we can essentailly build the same device-i
as long as i dont reuse the old material from the original mechinism as a whole
and change it
i read the rule as you cannot unbolt a mechinism from a old robot and bolt it on to a new robot and use it- if you re create the same mech from new parts that is ok

[KenWittlief]

I think we are saying the right things but getting the meanings of the words mixed up.

a design is something drawn on paper - you CAN use old designs

a mechanism is a physical assembly with fabricated components - you CANNOT take a mechanism or any team-fabricated parts off old bots and use them this year.

we are saying the same thing, but using the words differently.

[Andrew Dahl]

yes thanks
well off to the machine shop i go then-


that will save my desing team fits coming up with a new "ball handler"just need to work on the new components

[KenWittlief]

NO NO NO NO NO!!!!

you absolutely cannot use mechanisms from previous years designs unless it is something that can be COMPLETELY purchased by all teams off the shelf

it doesnt matter if you modify it or not.

what you CAN do is take an old design and make a new copy of it - as long as all the fabricated parts are fabricated after the 2004 kickoff.

95% of what we use in engineering (and on our robots) was designed and fabricated by someone else (all the parts they give us in the kit for example)

you are free to make customs parts of your own design, or of someones elses design, or from a white paper on this forum - but you have to build and fabricate ALL the parts this year.

[KenWittlief]

for the official wording, see section 5.2.5 <R09> of the beloved manual :c)

[Ragin_Kage]

You can use the same design, redesign it if you want, but all fabrication needs to be new for the season, hence forth giving rookies and such a fair opportunity...prof. grac.

See above post as well, you got there faster than i could