Insights from 2000?

[Gabriel]

I noticed that the 2000 game also featured a chin-up bar. I, and I'm sure many other rookie teams and probably some second and third year teams as well are very interested in learning more about how the game played out and what strategies/mechanisms were successful.

I've looked through the pictures from 2000 and noticed that many teams tried to lift themselves straight up from directly under the bar, was this significantly better than lifting from an angle?

I noticed that many teams used an extendable scissor-lift mechanism (sorry, my terminology is abysmal) like the one in the attached picture. Is that type of system easy to build and effective?

Obviously, the answer to the next question depends on the mechanism you're using, but about how much time did it take to maneuver into the right position, lock onto the goal and pull yourself up?

Once you attach yourself to the bar how difficult was it to detach from the bar? How much time did it take?

We would greatly appreciate any insights or lessons you learned in 2000 that might be helpful this year.

Thank you,
Gabriel
Team 1409

[Cory]

A scissor link mechanism will work, however, they are usually associated with having poor lateral stability. We used a scissorlink lift in 2000 to get the balls to the trough, and I can tell you, it swayed from side to side quite a bit. You can beef it up enough to avoid this, but it might be quite heavy.

Cory

[Ken Loyd]

Gabriel,

In 2000 we used a fiberglass rod to engage our hook which was slightly larger in diameter than the hanging bar. As we drove under the bar the hook would engage the bar. We used nylon cord to pull our 129 lb robot off the ground about six inches. It took about 12 seconds to get six inches off the ground. I hope this helps.

Ken Loyd
Team 64

PS It worked well enough to allow us to make it to the semi-finals that year.

[Gabriel]

Thanks guys.

Do you think that getting up that 6" barrier and hooking on to the bar is a little too ambitious for a rookie team? We have a lot of enthusiasm, but limited time and experience.

[Mike Soukup]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Do you think that getting up that 6" barrier and hooking on to the bar is a little too ambitious for a rookie team? We have a lot of enthusiasm, but limited time and experience.

A rookie team with limited experience should first concentrate on driving. Get a drivetrain that works so well you never have to worry about it failing in a match. Over the years I've seen rookies that simply can't drive well enough to be effective in the match, Wildstang included . It does no good to be able to hang if it takes you the whole match to get there, but a robot that can simply drive around well can push balls to the HP and play defense, both of which will help your alliance. Once you have a solid drivetrain then you can concentrate on other mechanisms - ball collector, big ball scorer, hanging device. Be thinking about and designing these parts, but don't sacrifice a driving base for them.

[Dave Campbell]

Originally Posted by Gabriel

Thanks guys.

Do you think that getting up that 6" barrier and hooking on to the bar is a little too ambitious for a rookie team? We have a lot of enthusiasm, but limited time and experience.

Do not limit yourselves on ideas or ambition...be realistic about the design build time. If you keep to a schedule - you can be a little ambitious. The mechanics of 9ft+ reach will be a big challenge, and the 6" step also difficult. Look at systems that exist in the world already for ideas...ambulance guerneys, tanks, and similar devices. Try to get in touch with some of the veteran teams near you, maybe they have videos from 2000, 2001 that they would share with you. Good Luck!

I Absolutely agree with Mike...

[SuperJake]

The biggest problem I saw at the 2000 competitions is robots that don't have enough power to lift them off the ground. They would latch onto the bar, begin pulling up and either not make it off the ground, or would lift off the ground only to have the motor's thermal shutdown activate and they would slowly sink back down to the floor.

BIG MOE (365) was designed in such a way that it didn't have to lift up the entire 130lbs of the robot, only the drive chassis. All of the electronics and the air tank (no compressor in 2000) were mounted on the arm, and the drive chassis was basically only a frame to support the arm and a simple drive. When we hung on the bar (the hangers are painted green just behind the basket in the image below), we just used the arm, powered by 2 fisher price motors and a gear box (not easily seen in this picture), to pick up our drive chassis. Instead of doing a chin-up, BIG MOE just grabbed onto the bar and picked up its feet. This was our rookie year, and it was a lot of fun to do.




Oh yeah.. GO MOE! ! !!! !!!! !!

[Jeff Rodriguez]

I, personally, like an arm for lifting yourself up.

RAGE did it in 2000. There are two pictures attched to illustrate.
The huge arm (excluding the basket) extended to almost double it length, and had a hook on the back. It allowed us to reach the bar from the flat field surface. We could reach over other bots and pull ourselves up.

[edit]The extending was powered by the window motor using a tape drive. Once the power went off, it locked into place.[/edit]

[Todd Derbyshire]

In 2000 TJ went and charged the ramp with a locking device that once it hooked on the bar it was impossible to release. We used telescoping arms to get the necessary height. As a driver we dedicated the last 30 seconds of the match to hanging it took probably maybe less than 10 seconds to hang with our mechanism but between battling and manuevering your way up there for position needs to be accounted for. Hope this helps a bit.

[Kevin Casper]

In 2000 we did our best not to let anyone on the bar. We were effective too. We won every match in which our power didn't shutdown for some reason or another. We won 2/3 of the matches.

[Solace]

i think assuming that it is necessary to be on top of the 6" step in order to grab the bar is a mistake. If you can make your arm go another foot, then you save yourself the trouble of figuring out a way of climbing of the platform.

[Kevin Casper]

Originally Posted by Solace

i think assuming that it is necessary to be on top of the 6" step in order to grab the bar is a mistake. If you can make your arm go another foot, then you save yourself the trouble of figuring out a way of climbing of the platform.

Remember you will be at an angle. It will be more like an extra foot and a half.

[Solace]

perhaps, but that depends entirely on how you construct your arm.

[mtaman02]

back in 2000 the old 2 school team Team 371 constructed a robot with a basket / bucket device. so that the HP may throw the balls in there and have the robot deliver it by un latching the bottom of the basket. when it came time for hanging under the basket there were i guess latches or hooks in which where the basket can be raised and then lowered onto the bar. I can't find a decent picture of the robot in delphis gallery however i did find one in ROBERTA in her starting position

Team 371 2000 J&J Mid-Atlantic Regional

If I can find an old picture i'll post it!