back-driveable vs. not

[Matt D]

non backdriveable means that you cannot physically move it (in either direction). Only the motor can move it. One way to do this is with a worm drive (although worm gears with pitch larger than ~10% can be backdriven).

Here is more info on the window motors (found by searching CD):

The anti-backdriving capability of those motors is awesome, so we try to use it to our advantage. Modifying the motor is just not allowed within the rules.

I know you don't want to argue the point, but I just can't help myself. The seal drag and other resistive forces are nothing compared to the weight of the window. Even though the window is going down, gravity is still acting on the motor (just helping). The motor's backdriving resisistance (or the linkages' backdriving ability) allows the window to stay up when the motor is off. The second the motor starts to move, the backdriving ability of the worm is greatly reduced (sliding friction vs. static friction) and gravity actually pulls the window down and the motor just controls the fall.

http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...50&postcount=8

[Stephen P]

Originally Posted by Matt D

non backdriveable means that you cannot physically move it (in either direction). Only the motor can move it. One way to do this is with a worm drive (although worm gears with pitch larger than ~10% can be backdriven).

Here is more info on the window motors (found by searching CD):


http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...50&postcount=8

This anti-back drive device may be adequate for suspending a 5 pound window, but what about a 130 pound robot?

[KenWittlief]

its not only designed to hold the car window open, but to prevent a thief from pushing it down and to keep the windows from sliding down when the car hits a pothole.

[Salik Syed]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

its not only designed to hold the car window open, but to prevent a thief from pushing it down and to keep the windows from sliding down when the car hits a pothole.

i'm not sure about the window but i can guarentee (is that how u spell it?) that van doors can be back driven w/ a 130 lb robot!

[Chris Hibner]

Originally Posted by Salik Syed

i'm not sure about the window but i can guarentee (is that how u spell it?) that van doors can be back driven w/ a 130 lb robot!

The Van Door Motor is designed to be back driven (so you can open the doors of the van manually in case the motor fails).

The window motor is designed NOT to be back driven (so people can't break into the vehicle).

I would be willing to bet that the window motor cannot be back driven due to the weight of a 130 lb robot.

[Max Lobovsky]

Originally Posted by Chris Hibner

I would be willing to bet that the window motor cannot be back driven due to the weight of a 130 lb robot.

You cannot make a statement as simple as this. There is a torque at which something will give. In this case, the worm gear will probably be the first thing to break. The torque backdriving the motor depends on not just the weight of the robot, but also the radius of the winch. i.e. if the robot weighs 130lb and is directly hanging from a winch of radius of 0.1 feet, you will have 130*0.1 = 13ft*lbs of torque acting on the motor. If someone has some data on these motors, that would be great.

[Dick Linn]

There are other older threads on the door motor/winches. I suggest searching the forums and you'll get some good info. We put a winch spool on the van door motor assembly (maybe 1 1/2 diameter in the center and 3" for the end plates. You can turn it relatively easily by hand, so we are putting a positive hold mechanism (like a cleat or an ascender for rock climbing) onto the cable to keep it from unreeling once we lift.

Worm drives can definitely be back-driven if the lead angle is too great. There is some info about this at bostongear.com at http://www.bostongear.com/products/enclosed/faqs.html (and possibly in the "gearology" tutorial, too) and a mention about back drive efficiency (Eb) somewhere at http://www.roton.com/worms.jsp. I saw this from a random search, so don't take it as hard fact: "A rule of thumb for the worm drive is they wilt not back drive above a 20:1 ratio. If vibrations occur, however, the ratio will need to be higher. Self-locking in the gear pass depends on the coefficient of friction between the worm and the worm wheel, which depends on the choice of materials and the lead angle of the worm, which is a function of the desired ratio."