FIRST Scoring Program

[MikeDubreuil]

If you remember last year I started a very controversial thread on the FIRST scoring software. There was an error in it which caused an eligeble team to be displayed inelligeble on the big screen. FIRST volunteers scrambled to fix it as fast as they could. In the end it was determined that it was a bug not discovered during beta testing. The thread concludes with myself offering to help beta test this years software.

What do you think about FIRST releasing the scoring programs on Sourceforge or something for all to look at and analyze? If we take the open source model, (ala Liunux) and apply it to the scoring programs we could have many more programmers help the volunteers at FIRST.

[dez250]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

If you remember last year I started a very controversial thread on the FIRST scoring software. There was an error in it which caused an eligeble team to be displayed inelligeble on the big screen. FIRST volunteers scrambled to fix it as fast as they could. In the end it was determined that it was a bug not discovered during beta testing. The thread concludes with myself offering to help beta test this years software.

What do you think about FIRST releasing the scoring programs on Sourceforge or something for all to look at and analyze? If we take the open source model, (ala Liunux) and apply it to the scoring programs we could have many more programmers help the volunteers at FIRST.

This i personally think would not help the problem, yet make it worse. I am a scorekeeper this year at 2 regionals and am looking forward to it. Normally it seems the software will have bugs when different states occur. I dont think with all the testing, all the states could be thought of and used throughout testing. Sometimes you just have to let bugs be worked out as they happen and be fixed on the fly. Also i think that if you had a ton of people trying to help out the scorekeeper(s) at an event, it would be hell and make a huge time delay in the event. IMHO i would not like to see the program be released to the general public, though if you contact first via the volunteer system and explain your situation, it would be appriciated by many though.

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by dez250

This i personally think would not help the problem, yet make it worse. I am a scorekeeper this year at 2 regionals and am looking forward to it. Normally it seems the software will have bugs when different states occur. I dont think with all the testing, all the states could be thought of and used throughout testing. Sometimes you just have to let bugs be worked out as they happen and be fixed on the fly. Also i think that if you had a ton of people trying to help out the scorekeeper(s) at an event, it would be hell and make a huge time delay in the event. IMHO i would not like to see the program be released to the general public, though if you contact first via the volunteer system and explain your situation, it would be appriciated by many though.

Perhaps I should explain which programs I am referring to exactly. The programs used to: rank teams, randomly create qualifying round pairings, and particularly the program used during alliance picking which establish eligibility.

I wouldn't expect score keepers at regionals to be programmers. Or for it to even be possible for them to change the program. There really shouldn't be a need for it. I assume they are regular folks who are looking at a premade Windows program.

I think FIRST should put the program on Sourceforge now and let the bugs get picked out in the next couple weeks. The collaboration happens in an online forum style, teams shouldn't neet to approach scorers at the regionals. Make participants understand they are simply testing the functionality and not the "look". I am certain that the knowledge in the FIRST community can weed out 99.9% of problems.

For a good Sourceforge example check out GAIM . An open source instant messanger developed using the tools at Sourceforge.

[dez250]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

Perhaps I should explain which programs I am referring to exactly. The programs used to: rank teams, randomly create qualifying round pairings, and particularly the program used during alliance picking which establish eligibility.

I wouldn't expect score keepers at regionals to be programmers. Or for it to even be possible for them to change the program. There really shouldn't be a need for it. I assume they are regular folks who are looking at a premade Windows program.

I think FIRST should put the program on Sourceforge now and let the bugs get picked out in the next couple weeks. The collaboration happens in an online forum style, teams shouldn't neet to approach scorers at the regionals. Make participants understand they are simply testing the functionality and not the "look". I am certain that the knowledge in the FIRST community can weed out 99.9% of problems.

For a good Sourceforge example check out GAIM . An open source instant messanger developed using the tools at Sourceforge.

maybe i should explain the first program used for scoring and ranking. The score keeper controls all software for scoring, ranking and alliance selection among other things like the time counters and lights. This is all controlled through the scoring and match system software all assembled in a single Database that runs through Filemaker Pro. That is how it has been run in the past and i have been informed it will be run the same way this year.

[Astronouth7303]

Three Words:
ERROR CHECKING CODE.
Always test extremes and situations which you think are impossible. Give it random values, if you have to. My point is: Use vigerous (and stressful) debugging. That goes for the bots, too.

[Aidan F. Browne]

In an attempt to try and belay any concerns about this year's scoring system, let me share some information....

1) FIRST has contracted an outside expert in scoring systems to develop a completely new Scoring System for 2004.

2) This dual-redundant system has been incorporated with the Field Control for a one-stop-shopping Field Control and Scoring Console (the words slick and sleek come to mind)

3) Extensive testing of the system is being done by the developer and FIRST with a real competition field.

4) The entire system is going to be vetted at one of the pre-ship competetions (which will not be named) as a final test before all of the fields go on the road for the regionals.

So... the new system should help make the process of field control go more smoothly than ever before. Bottom line.... once again FIRST has heard the Team's concerns and has very proactively taken steps to address them.

Kudos to FIRST!



Aidan

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by Aidan F. Browne

Kudos to FIRST!

Hey Aidan, this is very good news, thanks. Major kudos to FIRST.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by Aidan F. Browne

4) The entire system is going to be vetted at one of the pre-ship competetions (which will not be named) as a final test before all of the fields go on the road for the regionals.

It's already been named elsewhere on CD

[ahecht]

Originally Posted by Aidan F. Browne

In an attempt to try and belay any concerns about this year's scoring system, let me share some information....

1) FIRST has contracted an outside expert in scoring systems to develop a completely new Scoring System for 2004.

I can vouch for this. The person who created the TacOps scoring software used at BattleCry@WPI and Robonautica is the one doing the current official scoring software. It should be a major improvement over past year's efforts.