Soccer Throw or Basketball Shot?

[ngreen]

Originally Posted by collin234

on another note but kind of similar:
has anybody tried herding those balls into the chutes? i don't have our field done all the way yet, but i'm close, and i think it's gonna take a lot of control to put the balls in the chute. you only have 3" vert. clearance minus whatever that lip ends up being. it seems to me like it would be very difficult to do. so: a good human player can get you points, but a good robot is needed too.

as per the question at hand...soccer it to me.

an answer to my question...it's a lot harder than i think most people were thinking it would be to herd balls. they have to be rolled quite slowly and with about zero bounce to go in the chute...good luck to all the ball herders!

Yeah, It's not an easy task to get the ball into the corrals. They short, narrow and the aren't very deep. Any bounce misalignment or too much speed can throw your chance of sucessfully keeping it in the goal off. The two best ways I've seen to have maximum control of the balls is either gather them in a hopper of sorts and release them straight into the goal or use some type of pool stick device. I'm very interested in the second way but haven't found a successful way to make this happen. It relies on more speed than the cyclinder can give and I haven't figured a good mechanical way to do this yet. If anyone is using this way to so call kick the ball into the corral I would be interested in how. One of the most interesting ideas I've thought of is a octagonal crab drive robot in which each side plate pops out 4-6 inches. I would call it the puffer fish bot. The ultimate ball controller. Maximum mobility and barring no obstruction it could make shots from the opposite corral. And it could make 45 degree angled shots to. Oh I would so have loved this robot.

[Sachiel7]

If you want to shoot the balls, why not try a paddle?
Just set up a small piston at the top of a paddle, with a pivot close to the piston. Smaller pistons are quicker, and if you set it up right, it could give the balls enough snap to roll them in.

[ngreen]

Originally Posted by Sachiel7

If you want to shoot the balls, why not try a paddle?
Just set up a small piston at the top of a paddle, with a pivot close to the piston. Smaller pistons are quicker, and if you set it up right, it could give the balls enough snap to roll them in.

Yeah

The piston are to slow. I tried a 3/4" bore, 4" stroke piston (fairly small) and it wasn't quick enough.

The paddle might work somewhat but it also might lift the ball so it bounces instead of of rolls. I would prefer a straight out linear quick 4-6" movement instead of any rotational force.

Creating sometype of spring system might work but if you got that much force and speed they might think it is dangerous.

To see what my thoughts are first take a pole or plate and use it like a pool stick or a plate evenly moving out at about 6"-7" inches off the ground (mid-ball). After you've done this hold it perpendicular to the ground, make a pivot point with one hand and rotate the bar and hit the ball. If is too easy to ride up on a ball or get one stuck in the mechanism. As you change the angle of the mechanism you'll hit the ground, ride up on the ball, or make the ball fly.

The reason this is my dream robot is because it take care of these problems but I can figure a good way to make it happen.

Great in concept hard to implement. But that's engineering sometimes.

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by ngreen

Yeah, It's not an easy task to get the ball into the corrals. They short, narrow and the aren't very deep. Any bounce misalignment or too much speed can throw your chance of sucessfully keeping it in the goal off. The two best ways I've seen to have maximum control of the balls is either gather them in a hopper of sorts and release them straight into the goal or use some type of pool stick device. I'm very interested in the second way but haven't found a successful way to make this happen. It relies on more speed than the cyclinder can give and I haven't figured a good mechanical way to do this yet. If anyone is using this way to so call kick the ball into the corral I would be interested in how. One of the most interesting ideas I've thought of is a octagonal crab drive robot in which each side plate pops out 4-6 inches. I would call it the puffer fish bot. The ultimate ball controller. Maximum mobility and barring no obstruction it could make shots from the opposite corral. And it could make 45 degree angled shots to. Oh I would so have loved this robot.

i agree that the hopper would probably be the best idea...however, these balls behave unlike any object i've seen in a FIRST game as of late. the soccer balls were fairly reliable and the crate were...well...crates. unless you're rolling them with some tig ole wings, i'm not sure if anything else is gonna be that successful. but i don't know...i haven't experimented that much. i guess we'll see. as for the pool cue...too unreliable...you'd have to be lined up perfectly which is much easier said than done.

[Lil' Lavery]

Do whatever the human player is the best at. Ours does a jump shot, soccer hybrid thing. Also, note that bouncing isnt reliable, cus their will be balls and robots running around on the field, so it might hit something. Plus the flexability of te goalposts allows shots to go in from the front. In other words, PRACTICE, and find which one is the best.

[Beth Sweet]

If you can do basketball, its better, more accurate, but if you can't get the power, you gotta stick with the soccer throw.

[Lil' Lavery]

f you can do basketball, its better, more accurate, but if you can't get the power, you gotta stick with the soccer throw.

We've found it to be quite the opposite. The basketball is more pwerful, the soccer more accurate. The best of all is just heaving it with one hand, LOTS of power, good accuracy IF you can keep it centered on your hand. Most of the time it will roll off the side or the top while you throw, sending spirling off in a random direction. Oh yeah, punting has power, not nearly enough accuracy, plus it endangers the field, jusdges and spectator(well the ones at arena side anyway), so youll probably get DQed for it.

[Yan Wang]

Our best human players have all thrown it with soccer throws... Nathan, Casey, and I were testing it and soccer-style is the only consistent way for the stationary goal. We got 20, 18, and 18 in a row consecutively with that (haven't tried any more). Then when we tried shooting 12 in 30 seconds (been practicing speed now), the soccer dominated even more because it didn't require as much time to get the feel of it before shooting. The basketball shot was only useful for the mobile goal when you actually needed an arc.

[ngreen]

Originally Posted by collin234

i agree that the hopper would probably be the best idea...however, these balls behave unlike any object i've seen in a FIRST game as of late. the soccer balls were fairly reliable and the crate were...well...crates. unless you're rolling them with some tig ole wings, i'm not sure if anything else is gonna be that successful. but i don't know...i haven't experimented that much. i guess we'll see. as for the pool cue...too unreliable...you'd have to be lined up perfectly which is much easier said than done.

It would be a cue coupled to a solid plate that is what hits the ball. It wouldn't have to be super accurate.

[Matt D]

I prefer soccer style. Some people on the team prefer basketball. Do whatever you like.

[Sscamatt]

I have found that if you throw it soccer style the ball has a tendency to slip through the backposts on the stationary goal. Today at the UTC scrimmage seems like most people are throwing bastketball style and its working fine

[ngreen]

Originally Posted by Sscamatt

I have found that if you throw it soccer style the ball has a tendency to slip through the backposts on the stationary goal. Today at the UTC scrimmage seems like most people are throwing bastketball style and its working fine

Today I was messing around and I prefer soccer style on empty stationary goals but on a full goal a single bounce method is superior. You can get at least 2 more ball in the goal than soccer style. I need more height to work with though. If that ceiling wasn't there I would assume basketball shot would work good for the empty goal but I still like the bouncing method to finish out the goal. But your doing really good if you have to do that. 15+ balls. By what scrimmage people are saying, that will be hard.

[Heretic121]

at quincy today... i still have not seen the potential of either shot or its advantages or disadvantages... they were all "heavy" non offical balls, and A LOT of them were going straight throught the back... and that has never happend on our own teams field with the lighter ball and the pvc is A LOT looser on our field also then it was at quincy... from the "human player showdown" we had, our team 121 won w/ 16/20... 2 HP's both got 10 shots one from each side... i went second and used the soccer throw... i was surprised only 1 went through the back when the goal was more full... and one popped out that was hanging on the edge between the PVC... we also figured that it can fit 18 balls comfortably w/o capping it

[Spikey]

Soccer works best for me on the stationary goal, until it gets near full , then I do basketball shots. On the small goal I use Basketball only.

[Petey]

I prefer the soccer throw, though my brother--the other human player--prefers basketball style.

I also like baseball style...for certain...tricks...that we have up our sleeve.



--Petey