Go to Post FIRST: Making women's hair grow, and mens hair fall out. - Ashley Christine [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Pneumatics
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:31
Ryan Cumings's Avatar
Ryan Cumings Ryan Cumings is offline
Programmer and University Rejected
#0134 (Team Discovery)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Pembroke, NH
Posts: 65
Ryan Cumings is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Ryan Cumings
Two pressures?

Is it possible to use different pressures for the extend and retract on the pistons? For example, use 60 psi for the retract and regulate the 60 psi down to 30 psi for the extend?
__________________
Suddenly being rejected from college feels right during the build season. Now I am a mentor.
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:35
dez250 dez250 is offline
54... What a good number!
no team
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Upstate NY / Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,721
dez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to dez250
Re: Two pressures?

why would you want more pressure on the retract then the extend. In pneumatics like we have there is no real "speed control" or "stroke distance control" that we have by limiting pressure input on different sides.
__________________
#5

-Michael Dessingue
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:35
NoRemorse's Avatar
NoRemorse NoRemorse is offline
FOCUS Integration, LLC - Owner
AKA: Brian Roberts
FRC #1023 (Bedford Express)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Bedford
Posts: 221
NoRemorse has a spectacular aura aboutNoRemorse has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to NoRemorse Send a message via MSN to NoRemorse
Re: Two pressures?

you could use the 2ndary regulator on one of the pneumatic lines downstream from the solenoid valve.

NOTE: im not entirly sure how this would work thoug, i dont know how air reacts passing backwards through the reg. I am under the impression it gets vented, but it might restrict flow then. try it!
__________________

http://LSJBuildUp.com -Documenting the build of my LSJ, as well as other influential cars.
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:40
Tom Bottiglieri Tom Bottiglieri is offline
Registered User
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,188
Tom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Two pressures?

in te kit of parts *not sure what they are called* there are little pressure regulators that attach to either end of the piston. The are whit and orange and have a little turny knob on the top for adjusdments. Put those on and tweak around with that.
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:42
dez250 dez250 is offline
54... What a good number!
no team
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Upstate NY / Manchester, NH
Posts: 1,721
dez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond reputedez250 has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to dez250
Re: Two pressures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToMMan b182
in te kit of parts *not sure what they are called* there are little pressure regulators that attach to either end of the piston. The are whit and orange and have a little turny knob on the top for adjusdments. Put those on and tweak around with that.
please spell check all posts before posting
__________________
#5

-Michael Dessingue
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:42
ngreen ngreen is online now
Registered User
AKA: Nelson Green
FRC #1108 (Panther Robotics)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Paola, KS
Posts: 821
ngreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant futurengreen has a brilliant future
Re: Two pressures?

THe second regulator would be your best choice. It should work but just test it.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:43
NoRemorse's Avatar
NoRemorse NoRemorse is offline
FOCUS Integration, LLC - Owner
AKA: Brian Roberts
FRC #1023 (Bedford Express)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Bedford
Posts: 221
NoRemorse has a spectacular aura aboutNoRemorse has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to NoRemorse Send a message via MSN to NoRemorse
Re: Two pressures?

those are not pressure regulators, those things are called "Flow Controls". They allow the flow of the air passing OUT of the piston to be controlled. They can be used as 1 way valves to, because air in is unefected, and air out can be cut off when the valvr is all the way closed.
__________________

http://LSJBuildUp.com -Documenting the build of my LSJ, as well as other influential cars.
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:49
Sachiel7's Avatar
Sachiel7 Sachiel7 is offline
<Yes I managed to flip it
AKA: Shayne Helms
FRC #1132 (RAPTAR Robotics)
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 541
Sachiel7 is just really niceSachiel7 is just really niceSachiel7 is just really niceSachiel7 is just really niceSachiel7 is just really nice
Send a message via AIM to Sachiel7
Re: Two pressures?

Quote:
why would you want more pressure on the retract then the extend. In pneumatics like we have there is no real "speed control" or "stroke distance control" that we have by limiting pressure input on different sides
Well, you're 1/2 right. True, you can not regulate stroke distance with pressure. You CAN regulate the speed at which the piston moves (and it can be different extending and retracting) with the small fittings that have the white knobs.
You also CAN create a very simple multi-positioning setup with parts from the kit. This will allow you to extend a piston part of the way and stop.
You typically do this by using 2 selenoids. One double, and one Single.
We did this last year, I can't entirely remember the setup.
But It's not difficult, or space consuming or anything

Quote:
please spell check all posts before posting
The spell check feature has not been readded into the forums yet.
__________________
-=Sachiel7=-

There's no such thing as being too simple!
Look for Team #1132, RAPTAR Robotics at the VCU Regional this year!
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:50
Tom Bottiglieri Tom Bottiglieri is offline
Registered User
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 3,188
Tom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond reputeTom Bottiglieri has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Two pressures?

ahh oh well im not too worried about my spelling... i know i can type right but im usually just to lazy to go back and fix my lazy online talk
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:55
Ryan Cumings's Avatar
Ryan Cumings Ryan Cumings is offline
Programmer and University Rejected
#0134 (Team Discovery)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Pembroke, NH
Posts: 65
Ryan Cumings is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Ryan Cumings
Re: Two pressures?

Well I was trying to think of a way to limit the amount of air we lose when you lift ourselves onto the bar. We would still need the 60 psi (actually would it be better to have the retract only exert 130 lbs of force??) to lift, but do we really need 75 cu In at 60 psi to be lost just to extend the piston?
__________________
Suddenly being rejected from college feels right during the build season. Now I am a mentor.
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 22:58
jimfortytwo jimfortytwo is offline
Registered User
AKA: Jim Paulos
#0418 (Purple Haze)
Team Role: Student
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: austin
Posts: 65
jimfortytwo is just really nicejimfortytwo is just really nicejimfortytwo is just really nicejimfortytwo is just really nicejimfortytwo is just really nice
Send a message via ICQ to jimfortytwo Send a message via AIM to jimfortytwo Send a message via Yahoo to jimfortytwo
Re: Two pressures?

EDIT: So my guess at your intent was wrong. And four other people replied while I was typing this. However, maybe this post with have intrinsic value to someone else. Consider it a recap.

I'm going to sort of ignore your question, because I've got a feeling you're asking how to dodge the 10ft/sec rule with a piston bar hanger. I assume that what you're trying to do is actually control piston extension and retraction *speed*. If thats the case, using a regulator to restrict pressure for the extension is only indirectly going to solve your problem. NoRemorse's flow controls screw directly onto the pistons, and will allow you to adjust stroke speed without effecting force.

If you really want to restrict *pressure* for whatever reason, and you fully realize that this will have only indirect impact on piston speed, you'll need that second full blown regulator.

Last edited by jimfortytwo : 15-02-2004 at 23:03.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 23:01
Kevin Sevcik's Avatar
Kevin Sevcik Kevin Sevcik is online now
(Insert witty comment here)
FRC #0057 (The Leopards)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Rookie Year: 1998
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 3,745
Kevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond reputeKevin Sevcik has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Kevin Sevcik Send a message via Yahoo to Kevin Sevcik
Re: Two pressures?

As an answer to the original question, if a secondary regulator downstream of the double solenoid doesn't work because of the directionality of the regulator, you could always use two single solenoids and have one supplied by the secondary regulator.

Also note: I recall accidentally hooking a regulator up backwards once, and it completely failed to regulate pressure, so I think the regulator after the double solenoid should work. If you want to have more than one cylinder set up like this, single solenoids would be the way to go since I think you're limited to just the regulators in the kit.

Also, to everyone else, I can think of one good reason to set up a cylinder like this. If you know for certain that you don't need 60psi on the retract and only need 30psi, setting the system up like this could potentially save you a lot of stored air and battery power, depending on how often you cycle the cylinder. It works out to about a 25% savings for every extend-retract cycle. That could potentially be very important.

Edit:
I'm a slow typist, but I swear I thought of that before he posted his intentions. Honest.
__________________
The difficult we do today; the impossible we do tomorrow. Miracles by appointment only.

Lone Star Regional Troubleshooter

Last edited by Kevin Sevcik : 15-02-2004 at 23:04.
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 23:02
Ryan Cumings's Avatar
Ryan Cumings Ryan Cumings is offline
Programmer and University Rejected
#0134 (Team Discovery)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Pembroke, NH
Posts: 65
Ryan Cumings is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Ryan Cumings
Re: Two pressures?

Not exactly trying to dodge the 10 ft/sec rule. It was more of a way to reduce the amount of air we exhaust when we extend the piston so we don't need to wait 30 seconds for the system to gain enough pressure to fully retract the piston.
__________________
Suddenly being rejected from college feels right during the build season. Now I am a mentor.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 23:04
Ryan Cumings's Avatar
Ryan Cumings Ryan Cumings is offline
Programmer and University Rejected
#0134 (Team Discovery)
Team Role: Programmer
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Rookie Year: 2000
Location: Pembroke, NH
Posts: 65
Ryan Cumings is an unknown quantity at this point
Send a message via AIM to Ryan Cumings
Re: Two pressures?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Sevcik
As an answer to the original question, if a secondary regulator downstream of the double solenoid doesn't work because of the directionality of the regulator, you could always use two single solenoids and have one supplied by the secondary regulator.

Also note: I recall accidentally hooking a regulator up backwards once, and it completely failed to regulate pressure, so I think the regulator after the double solenoid should work. If you want to have more than one cylinder set up like this, single solenoids would be the way to go since I think you're limited to just the regulators in the kit.

Also, to everyone else, I can think of one good reason to set up a cylinder like this. If you know for certain that you don't need 60psi on the retract and only need 30psi, setting the system up like this could potentially save you a lot of stored air and battery power, depending on how often you cycle the cylinder. It works out to about a 25% savings for every extend-retract cycle. That could potentially be very important.

Edit:
I'm a slow typist, but I swear I thought of that before he posted his intentions. Honest.
Ahh much thanks.. We are all forum hawks tonight.
__________________
Suddenly being rejected from college feels right during the build season. Now I am a mentor.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 15-02-2004, 23:04
NoRemorse's Avatar
NoRemorse NoRemorse is offline
FOCUS Integration, LLC - Owner
AKA: Brian Roberts
FRC #1023 (Bedford Express)
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: Bedford
Posts: 221
NoRemorse has a spectacular aura aboutNoRemorse has a spectacular aura about
Send a message via AIM to NoRemorse Send a message via MSN to NoRemorse
Re: Two pressures?

Well, this is the info I can give you.

1) The piston has the most force when extended (you probably knew this though)

2) In this situation I don't know what you are trying to do makes sence. Are you regulating down the pressure it uses one way to below 60, or do you want it to be more on one side. I believe that you may only use 60psi on the cylenders.

3)If you want one side at 60psi, and the other at a lower, you may need 2 seperate solenoids to accomplish this.......

[tanks]=====['T']===[reg at 60psi]===[solenoid]===[r]
....................||............................ .....................||
.....................\====[reg at 30psi]===[solenoid]===[e]

DISREGAURD the dots!


r and e are 'extened' and 'retract'

I don't know if ths what your shooting for though
__________________

http://LSJBuildUp.com -Documenting the build of my LSJ, as well as other influential cars.

Last edited by NoRemorse : 15-02-2004 at 23:07.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 22:39.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi