FAHA: When Some one thinks they know all.

[Ken Leung]

It's not easy running a robotics program trying to inspire and educate students. It is even harder when the student being "difficult". Let's take a look at a letter from someone sharing their experience about having such student on their team.

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We're having a problem on our team with a new team member. I don't know what it is, but he thinks he knows everything about our robot, even thought he hadn't been to a meeting untill 4 weeks into the build season. When a team members brother asks me about last years robot, somehow this new kid thinks he can explain it and show him the robot. Little does he know that the brother had come to nationals with us and knows the robot in and out. I know he means good, but It gets in the way with building the robot. His dad is the same way. They show up 2/3s into the build and want to change things by themselves. The kid tires to help too hard and wants to do everything. There is nothing wrong with that, but he is not carful at all. He drags the robot donw the hall beating the living crap out of it. It is just getting in the way of the people who get things done.

Now don't think that it's wrong of me to say all this, and we should be trying to incorperate him. But it is hard tryin to teach some one how things are done when they think they know all there is to know. You tell them how to make this part, but they disregaurd everything you say and do it thier way, destroying the material you give them.

Well, not that anyone here can change this, it feels good to vent!

[ngreen]

Well, at least you'll have a robust robot and know how to fix it quick. I busted a drill motor transmission yesterday (Use the broccoli bands). But we learned that our coupler will seize onto the shaft and we will need more for competition if we have to switch out a transmission.

As for your person, there will always be people who think like this. There are way to handle this in the long run and short run. I think you are looking for a short run solution.

First plan is diversion. Have them help with chairman's, fundraising, scrap book, or other commitee or job that keep them out of the way. Put them in something they know nothing about and let them learn. Now this might not seem right and they might complain but I speaking in the short term.

Second, extreme supervision. Be by them whenever they try to do anything on the robot. Be ultra critical and remind them that this is everyone robot and they need to treat it with respect. And constantly say measure twice cut once. KISS. Or any other slogan that reminds them what they are doing. This might not be efficient use of time.

Third, schedule the meeting earlier in secret and lock the doors. This will work for at least a couple meeting. Work long hour when he is not their and perfect your robot to your liking and then lock it in a safe. When he finally shows up again and you let him in tell him that you shipped the robot. This should trick him as long as he has no access to the internet.

Fourth, add a quality control committee (I know it can be extremely inefficient) that has to approve every adjustment on the robot. We have one of these for most documents, e-mails, paperwork of most kind, the website, but I slip past it.

I'll add long term choices later...But I have to go to class...It's snowing and it inhales audibly.

[Amanda M]

You can't just shut them out of everything.

Our team has had its share of problems with this in the past. We've had people in the pit that knew nothing about our robot or anything it can do. And they were talking to scouts from other teams! (and I can say, from personal experience, that there are two sides you can look at this from)

1. Your side. The kid's a nuisance. Trying to get into everything, and only making a mess. What you could do is talk to him, make him feel a little more involved with the team. Educate him. Teach him how not to be a pest. Chances are, he's just trying to fit in, to live up to your (and everyone else's) expectations.

2. His side. He's in the middle of a place that he honestly knows nothing about. He's blown away. I mean, seriously, how often to kids get to see a robot that they can play with. People in my school don't even know anything about the robotics team. They have no idea what we do. He'll want to get hands on experience. Maybe he's a little too stubborn to admit when he's wrong, but that's when you step in and tell him how to fix the problem.

I think that you should just try to help him out. I've been in this position, and I know what it's like to be isolated from the team.

You never know, some day he might start working his butt off, knowing what he's doing, and prove to be very helpful.


Amanda M
Team60

[Swan217]

I agree with the quality control committee idea. It may be inefficient, but it's better than having something totally wrong in the end.

The biggest thing is communication. Point out (politely) what he is doing wrong. The best way is to show that you know what you are talking about, and have others back you up. If he says "left," explain some reasons why you should go "right." But show respect for him.

Do you have someone with a strong influence on the team? Like someone who everyone listens to and respects? If so, then sit down with that person and the new team member and talk about what you have a problem with.

Other than that, I guess I'm having trouble seeing why your mentors (engineers, teachers) don't step in. That's part of FIRST - people who know teaching the people that don't know.

Hope this helps.

[MattK]

Try to realize this is a problem (just like them not knowing how a "system" on the robot works) and do your best to help and mentor him (them).

If he truly means well he should realize after being helped that he is hurting not helping the team.

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally Posted by Ken Leung

Let's take a look at a letter from someone sharing their experience about having such student on their team.

************************************************** *****
but he thinks he knows everything about our robot, even thought he hadn't been to a meeting untill 4 weeks into the build season.

The adults who show up for 1 day, and have strong opinions and behavior to insist how things be done, the students who show up periodically and have strong feelings then disappear while the core students and mentors are working on his project to finish it and he reappears to pick up his project again, mentors who are here far less than other mentors and think they are the only one who can build a robot, or their not being here is the reason for every failure that in reality is a learning experience, and they believe they can override the core mentors' decisions. How 'bout the parent who wants her kids on the team, they don't attend the kickoff, or the meetings for the week after, so they aren't assigned on a subteam, she complains by email how our team does things administratively tho they haven't even been attending, then they do show up and her expectations were that we tutor her kids in person when they did finally arrive. She left in a huff cuz that didn't happen within the two hours she allowed them to be here.

Yeh, been there.

[Matt Leese]

Dealing with people who "know it all" can be a bit of a challenge. But, in the long run, it can also be very helpful. While "know it alls" can be annoying, sometimes they do have a point. Listen to the observations they make. They may be wrong 9 out of 10 times but you need to be listening the 10th time.

Outside of that, one of the hardest lessons to learn (I know, I've had to do it time and time again) is that just because you've done something one way in the past does not mean it's the right way, it's the best way, or that it's the way that it should be done this time.

The final thing that I should mention is that it sounds like you have a personality conflict on your team. Personality conflicts almost always involve two people. So I'm saying also look towards how you act and see if changing your behavior will help influence the other person.

Matt

[Rich Wong]

Ah! The classic case of “I know everything”. It happens almost every year with some of my teams. Sometimes it’s a senior, sometimes it’s is rookie member with that’s strong-minded (and narrow-mind) and sometimes a new mentor/teacher. This happen to one of my teams this year, another “want-to-help” teacher step in at the end of 3 weeks and said the design will not work and should be changed.

This time, I had to take him to the side with the team’s head coach and explained that the team rules agreed to at the beginning of the six-week building period is “No design change after the design is voted on by the members; unless there is a serious fault.”
The decisions are made by majority student vote so the students controls theirs own destiny. But the coaches and mentors have final say to design changes.

In the past (I recalled twice) I have not step in to stop the team from “Following the Piper.” A person have convinced the team that “He know what’s right for team” even thought it was a formula for disaster. Why? Because in FIRST, failure is an opinion if the students will learn from their mistakes. If the team opinion is strong and they out vote the mentor & coaches, it is better to support them and allow them to slowly mature and understand their mistake then to force them in to a design the adults come up with. (Also we could be wrong too; not often!!)

Last year, one student member was confronted by the whole team and asked to change or leave because of his negative opinions and disruptive behavior. He had a funny way of expressing himself in a negatively and was bring the team down. He reconsidered his behavior and apologies to the team.

My recommendation to you is to ask this new member to join in the team’s work but not to disrupt the team’s progress. Your organization also dictates the chain of commend on member behavior too. I feel all disruptive members will hurt the team in the long run. In FIRST, no member is that crucial and no individual know it all.
Good Luck.

[OneAngryDaisy]

Originally Posted by ngreen

Third, schedule the meeting earlier in secret and lock the doors. This will work for at least a couple meeting. Work long hour when he is not their and perfect your robot to your liking and then lock it in a safe. When he finally shows up again and you let him in tell him that you shipped the robot. This should trick him as long as he has no access to the internet.

I would not reccomend doing this at all. When it leaks out this student would be extremely mad- what I would reccomend doing is give him a rather tough task. Since this kid knows it all, tell him not to bother anyone else because they're all focused on their task. Chances are, he'll mess up the part, so partner him up with a senior student who can guide him through the steps.

If nothing else works, I'd have one of the team leaders (student or adult, whatever) have a little 'chit chat' with him. They should directly tell him he does not know everything and this is not a toy. Emphasize how there is no need to impress everyone or to know it all.

good luck- hope this kid learns how to be a productive team member

[Redhead Jokes]

Originally Posted by Amanda M

and I know what it's like to be isolated from the team.
You never know, some day he might start working his butt off, knowing what he's doing, and prove to be very helpful.

We have a team member who did nothing his freshman year except attend meetings. He's developed over the years into working his butt off and very much knowing what he's doing.