Knocking out Doubler Ball

[Gabriel]

I think it has to do with your intention. If your robot is sitting in front of the goal with a big net extended to catch your opponents small balls as they enter the goal, thats goaltending, however, if you are removing a large ball from the top of a goal and you happen to block a shot it shouldn't be considered goaltending as long as your intention is clearly to remove the ball, not to block shots. If you remove the ball and then sit next to the goal for a minute with that ball hovering right above the goal, that might be goaltending, but otherwise I think its a little unfair for FIRST to say that any interaction with the top of an opponents goal is goaltending if the intention is clearly otherwise.

[gsensel]

On the Kickoff Dean specifically talkeed about the delima on leaveing a goal that was capped to hang w/ a bot that was sitting there waiting to remove the ball. (I assume he was saying it was legal becsaue he never said it was illegal, but you all know what assuming does)

[Aignam]

Knocking out small balls that are in your own goal would be illegal as well, correct?

[dragonpaulz]

What would you cap the goal off with?

[Todd Derbyshire]

One scenario

My opponent goes to remove my 2x multiplier from my goal I the human player throw my 10 pt ball at the 2x multiplier. Does that mean my score is multiplied 20x!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So if I hang on the bar after that I would get a thousand points hmmm.. Please let this not be true!!

[Pat Roche]

I think it goes back to what FIRST said...use common sense....

-Pat

[IrisLab]

Originally Posted by Ken Leung

It is legal to take the 2X ball off the opponent's goal, but, consider this:

If you are using an arm to grab the 2x ball, as long as the ball is in your robot's arm, it is considered a part of the robot. When opponent's human player shoot a small ball toward the goal you are taking the 2X ball away from, and hit the 2X ball, you will be considered goaltending.

That could be an interesting part of strategy. If you are going for the opponents' 2X ball on a goal, you better watch out for their human player because if you don't, you may get the penality for goaltending. Whatever decive you design for that task have to do it quick and fast.

I spoke to Woody at the kickoff about this very thing. He stated that goal-tending violations is more of an intent. So if you're intent is to remove or place a 2X ball from a goal and in the process you cause a human player to not score a small ball, then it is my belief that you are not goal tending.

If however you move your bot to a goal and make no attempt to remove a 2X ball but rather you simply linger and hold the 2X over the goal, this would most likely be goal tending.

I would look at intent.

Does this make sense?

[jeremy562]

Goaltending does not result in a penalty. The team whose goal is being goaltended would receive double the points of the ball that was blocked. The goaltending team's score is not affected.

[ngreen]

Don't worry about this so much now. You will have practice matches at regionals to find out how judges on this rule. If a team is removing the 2x from your goal during a practice match, have your human player throw a ball at the 2x ball (!!!!NOT THE ROBOT!!!). It the ref throws a goaltending flag, throw another. If he dismisses it because of intent you've got your answer.

[MisterX]

Originally Posted by jeremy562

Goaltending does not result in a penalty. The team whose goal is being goaltended would receive double the points of the ball that was blocked. The goaltending team's score is not affected.

Not saying that my team woudl do this as it is not GP but does that me that if we are holding the large ball over our own goal and our alliance partner goes to shoot at the goal and the ball is deflected on its downward path that our alliance would get double the point of that ball which was deflected? Or vice versa if the opposing allaince did this thing would they then get double the points?

[jeremy562]

Originally Posted by MisterX

Not saying that my team woudl do this as it is not GP but does that me that if we are holding the large ball over our own goal and our alliance partner goes to shoot at the goal and the ball is deflected on its downward path that our alliance would get double the point of that ball which was deflected? Or vice versa if the opposing allaince did this thing would they then get double the points?

First, you can't goaltend your own goal, so you wouldn't get double the points in the first scenario.

Second, if you are goaltending your opponent's goal, they would get double the points if the referee determines that you are intentionally goaltending (and he sees it). If you are blocking your own goal and they shoot at it, no one would get any points (you can't goaltend your own goal).

[Heretic121]

i agree with the ability to knock out the 2x balls... BUT!!! while doing so you could easily be nailed with a small ball by an acurate HumanPlayer can hit your arm while trying to grab the 2x... so unless you have a way to come UNDERNEATH the 2x ball, it might be a little bit tricky to do... we shall see =D

[Lil' Lavery]

I assume you can take the 2x ball off the goals. Also, note that the mobile goals start with the 2x balls on them, so if you couldnt take them off, the mobile goals become totally pointless(the large ball prevents any small balls from getting in). Also if you couldnt take them off, teams could simply cap their opponents goal early, preventing them from obtaining many points other than the bar hang. So, in an effort to have higher scoring, and in turn more exiting and appealing games, I beleive that the 2x balls can by removed from the goal.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by Lil' Lavery

I assume you can take the 2x ball off the goals. Also, note that the mobile goals start with the 2x balls on them, so if you couldnt take them off, the mobile goals become totally pointless(the large ball prevents any small balls from getting in). Also if you couldnt take them off, teams could simply cap their opponents goal early, preventing them from obtaining many points other than the bar hang. So, in an effort to have higher scoring, and in turn more exiting and appealing games, I beleive that the 2x balls can by removed from the goal.

In the Q/A system, it was answered that un-intentional blocking (capping or un-capping being the intent) is still considered goaltending.

Is it just me, or do you think that it's going to be a challenge for the referees, drive-team, and spectators to keep up with the amount of penalties possible in this game? My guess is that many won't happen (such as pushing robots into the ball chutes, or breaking the wall plane, etc), but I think there will be a lot of goaltending calls early on.
Then I wonder if, since un-intentional blocking is goaltending, that alliances might shy away from dealing with their opponent's (2x) balls alltogether unless necessary for fear of goaltending, and focus mostly on their side. Any thoughts?

[ERock(NJ)]

Originally Posted by jneumiller

I'm trying to keep a good attitude here.....BUT!!!!!!

Remember some of Dean's parting comments.....we're engineers, scientists, and technologists. Let's read the rules and listen to the guidance as if we were....not like we're lawyers. (YUCK!)

See you on the high ground.

Jim

I think that knowing the rules and studying the game is part of what makes your robot design and drive team work well in the games. I read every rule at least 3 times before the we start building. People shouldn't be yeld at for doing there homework. If they were we would have alot of people failing out of school.