[moderated] Sportsmanship!

[Tyler Olds]

Originally Posted by Roland

Can you guys all stop acting like you're better than everyone else for a minute to show me what in the rules this dude's call is based on?

Wow way to make your self look good. First off, this "Dude" won the Woodie Flowers Award last year, he is a team leader and an inspiration for thousands of students and other mentors in FIRST (including yours truly). So I would watch what you say.

To show you what Andy Baker's decision was on, read section 4.3.1, which are definitions. The definition "Supported" states: If the "supporting object" is removed............... the robot would not remain hanging.

If I am right, Andy said that he did not feel that the robot was solely supported by the top of the bar. This would be his interpretation of the rules. Don't like it? Instead of making a fuss about it, making your self look bad, and your team, why don't you be a little understanding of the position that Andy is in. It's not like he is bias towards certain teams, he does the best he can.

If this really upsets you this much and you have enough lack of compassion, maybe you should re-take a look of your morals regarding FIRST before you go to another competition.

[Roland]

Tyler, thank you very much for pointing me to this section of the rules. Cory, thanks for answering my question. Wait, did you answer my question? No, you didn't answer my question, you just attacked me for numerous paragraphs for saying that all of you should stop acting like you're better than everyone else. I appreciate volunteers as much as any of you; if it weren't for them I wouldn't be part of FIRST. Some people just need to chill out...

[edomus]

Could someone please tell me the situation in the match and the call that was made. thanks

[ngreen]

The situation was a robot was legally hanging and another push it so that its hook was pushed against the vertical bars attachment. Andy ruled that if the vetical bar wasn't there the hook would have slid off so he ruled they were not hanging. This is discussed in depth in Q & A if you want a reference to the situation.

[KenWittlief]

I hate to even be in this thread, but the whole thing SHOULD be deleted

complaining about a judges call is not GP

complaining about the actions of other teams or individuals is NOT GP EITHER!

telling someone their behavior is not good sportmanship is ITSELF not good sportsmanship

I dont even know what this is all about - apparently a difficult call was made and people were upset

does that surprize you?

why is it not ok for them to be upset, but its ok for you to be upset with them for being upset and coming on here, wagging fingers, using the Lords name, cussing.....

enough already - someone please delete this thread - its not worthy of this forum, or of FIRST.

[Tyler Olds]

Though I do not agree with everything that you have said Ken, I agree this thread should be deleated, I will see to it.

[Amanda Morrison]

I believe the situation was that a hanging robot was supported by the flange on the bar, and that was ruled as an illegal hanging. We saw this call made all over the country, and you can't have one set of rules legal at one competition and another set of rules at another regional. That doesn't work.

Also, with the reports that there was booing of the referees, I'd like to take a step back and say that I hope there is remorse for such an action. We may all be in this program to win, but if you have the audacity to boo a volunteer that is out on that field to be just and fair, you must have missed that whole part of the kickoff that emphasized gracious professionalism. Who cares if it's Andy Baker? Andy Baker is ONE person out on that field. There's several other referees, judges, field resetters, etc. who are helping out that you are insulting. Just because this happens every year doesn't make it any less harsh.

In the heat of competition, a lot of things are said, assumptions made, and grudges held. I would advise you, having been in your exact position myself, to carefully think over what is being said. I would also like to remind you that all personal comments towards other users of the forum should not be posted here - PMing the person will get you better results and not have the rest of us wading through arguments when only looking for information.

Let's make the rest of this season as gracious as possible - let's see the model students that teams brag about, the helpful engineers, the inspiring coaches, and motivating mentors. Let's leave this childishness behind, and let's truly inspire all that we can.

[wasabi824]

i was at the portland competition, and was there when the call was made. i know it may not be of biggest consequence, but the booing that people may have heard on the webcast was solely done by 4 grown men who were sitting behind me. i did not observe any students or anyone else booing. it was indeed a very negative act, but hopefully the students learn by "inverse example".

[Nick Mac]

I think that the way reffing was handled at the J&J regional was handled was amazing. I appologize for not knowing who the head ref was, but Friday when the group of refs were announced, he came right out and said that any problems were to be directed at him and him alone. I don't believe there was any booing at all, other than the fact that one match had to be redone. Peopel were just slightly upset because the match was 3/4 over and the head ref accidentally shut off the wrong bot. But the match was done over and everyone went on there way. I haven't seen anyone arguing about it today at all.

This Part is directed to those who had a problem with Andy Baker's Decision. Even though i wasn't there, this holds true for all of FIRST. You've just got to expect some problems at each competion. Be gracious and accept the fact that the call was made and that its too late to be reversed. I guarantee that at one point in your team's history, you've done something wrong and maybe the call wasn't made and didn't hurt you. I'm positive that you didn't go complaining then. Why, because it didn't hurt you...That's a bit hypocritical. Let it roll off...You've got a shot at the next regional/Nationals.

[Andy Baker]

Hang on... don't delete this thread. I am working on a reply.

I am trying to get un-buried at work right now... bear with me.

Andy B.

[Andy Baker]

First of all, thank you all for the support. Cory and Tyler, thank you for the kind words. Amanda has a great point - it doesn't matter who makes these calls, they are tough to make and they eventually are just the way things are going to be.

As far as the booing, I really could care less since it was directed at me. A ref is a target. If there were people booing at a certain team that is another issue entirely. Also, the boos were not that much. 4 guys sound about right. More importantly, once the boos were heard, there was an overwhelming surge of applause by the rest of the crowd. I was not insulted or put off.

The Portland Regional was quite an experience. While I was disappointed that the field did not work as well as it should've, that did not overcome the overwhelming experience that I had. Simply put, the Portland teams are awesome.

Get this...

During this match, there was a negated hang and a very questionable entaglement. One team was trying to push a hanger and got their hook caught up in the other team's winch strap. After MUCH (too much) deliberation, I announced that the hang was not allowed since the hanger's hook was still being forced against the coupling. However, I also announced that the interaction between the hook and the strap was not a disqualifiable entanglement. The team who had their hang deemed not worth 50 points (and a few booed) won the match by balls and could've been DQ'ed by entanglement.

The 3 teams who lost this match are amazing. While they lost their chance to go on to the finals (it was the deciding match of the semi-finals), they did not give me any crap about it. They were disappointed and wanted an explaination, so I gave it. However, they acted very appropriately and showed much GP.

I relish the experience I had as referee in Portland. Many other tough calls had to be made in other matches and the teams competed well and were graceful along the way. Even when I screwed up one of the finals matches by disabling the wrong team, teams were graceful. I would chalk this experience up to being very frustrating with the FIRST field and scoring program, but also very rewarding from the angle of getting to know the teams and dealing with them through a tough competition.

For those of you out there who were thinking that the Pacific Northwest Regional was a easy ride or a regional with a bunch of weenie teams, you better think again. These teams fought hard for the championship. There were the tough veterans and the amazing rookie teams. They had shifting gearboxes, big ball handlers, funnel-bots, and many hangers. These robots had telemetry systems and sleek tread designs that looked better than anything I ever designed. Also, these teams helped each other out. We saw teams working on each other's robots, lending parts to each other during the elimination rounds and large cheering sections. It was quite impressive. If I didn't know any better, I would've thought that I was in Ypsilanti, Evanston, New Jersey, or Hartford. These teams in the NW have arrived... the rest of FIRST better watch out.

Andy B.

[duckyday]

i watched the call with bated breath. When it was made, well, it was understandable. Some people did boo... and that is something i don't like to see at any event. Booing, no matter the circumstances, is unsportsmanlike. In some ways, it might have just been people teasing the referee, but in others it is just plain rude. Still, this one happening was pretty minor. FIRST is always more sportsmanlike than any other event you can go to and, as Andy commented, Portland was no exception. The teams who go are the newer teams and this year they really stepped it up. The competition was feirce and the spirit was intense.

[Mel]

My team's robot was the one who's hook got caught in the "not hanging" robot. I hope that it was only the adults booing; I would be ashamed if any of my team took part in it.
Andy was a great ref and this was a tough call. While team 1359 wishes he had ruled in our favor, we also respect his decision. Hopefully, you all realize that booing was not the norm at the PNW Regional and that there was a lot of gracious professionalism going on.

[Pierson]

While my team was impacted by a DQ for entanglement (not the one referenced but our team's 9th match and the only one that we lost) I was stunned that someone would actually BOO at a FIRST event. To say that I was taken aback is an understatement. This is something I would expect to hear out of freshmen on the team, not parents or mentors.

Though he did DQ my team, Andy Baker did a great job and called a fair game. There was no favoritism or taking of sides like we sometimes see in professional sports, but just a cleanly officiated game.

[Gary Dillard]

OK, I gotta ask the question - is all booing wrong, ungracious and unprofessional?

I was watching the webcast and heard the booing, and I thought I saw Andy grinning - I'm guessing he expected it a little, and as he said he was not insulted or put off. Does booing mean you hate the guy? I doubt it - it means the ruling went against you, even if it was the correct one. Sometimes it's good natured heckling. I'd love to boo Andy sometime too except I couldn't do it with a straight face so he'd know I was just playing with him.

The competitions should be fun, good natured, spirited. If you get all upset about a ruling, rant and scream, make threats, etc. that's unsportsmanlike. If you question a ruling or disagree, then move on and forget about it, I think that is very much being a good sport.