How Important Is Capping?

[Mike8519]

Capping proved to be very effective to those who could do it consistently. I think the reason we won was because of a great alliance. Each bot complimenting the other. Especially 237 and us. They hung and blocked the bar and we just went around gathering balls then capping both goals. Our alliance lost once throughout the eliminations against the 8th seed (probably the 2nd best alliance with 25, 365, and 103). Ball handlers and hangers make a good combo.

[Tyler Olds]

Originally Posted by Scott358

I've noticed the topic of capping the opponents goal before balls are scored (or when there are only a couple) hasn't been mentioned as a defensive strategy.

Is this because it doesn't work, as it can typcially be uncapped so easy, or just something not too many teams tried to do in the first regionals?

Regards,
Scott358

SHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I will be the first to say that if it can be done, this is an excelent strategy, keeping in mind a couple things..........

If you put the ball too far in, any ball on top of that are multiplied, even is you get 5 or 6 in thats still decent points. If the ball is gently placed on top, the hp's might have some devine strength and be able to knock the ball out (though with the PVC in back that might be hard).

This strategy works very well against an alliance who hads no 2x ball capibilities, however some teams that can hang, might be able to uncap the ball as well.

[Mike8519]

actually, I dont know how the other regionals are working, but at the drivers meeting of the Nj regional they announced that any balls on top of the yellow ball arent considered points at all according to revision C of the rules (which dont include the Q&A forum). Any backup on this from other regionals?

[Sscamatt]

Originally Posted by Tyler Olds

If you put the ball too far in, any ball on top of that are multiplied, even is you get 5 or 6 in thats still decent points.

Question was asked at the driver's meeting on Thursday at New Jersey regional. They specifically said that balls on top of the 2x would count as nothing. So that strategy would not work.

[jamapor]

Originally Posted by Sscamatt

Question was asked at the driver's meeting on Thursday at New Jersey regional. They specifically said that balls on top of the 2x would count as nothing. So that strategy would not work.

Balls on top of the 2X multiplier are still multiplied.

[10intheCrunch]

Originally Posted by jamapor

Balls on top of the 2X multiplier are still multiplied.

What's your source on this?

edit: From FIRST's document on the game: A small ball is scored when it is contained within a goal or supported only by the goal and/or other small balls.

There's a little room for wiggling in there...but I would say on top of yellow balls = nothing.

edit2: Apparantly I'm wrong, from the below...but I still wouldn't say that a ball on top of a multiplier is "contained" in the goal, and it certainly doesn't fit the other description of scored...

[Combat Chuck]

Question and Answer Section of FIRST

ID: 68 Section: 4.4.1 Status: Answered Date Answered: 1/13/2004
Q: Please clarify the definition of capping. If a large ball is wedged into the goal and 5 point balls are on top of it, are they doubled as well? Does the "capping" actually "cap" the scoring that can be done with that goal?

A: Yes, the ones on top are doubled as well. Refer to the definition of SCORED.

[Sscamatt]

The head referee at the NJ regional said that balls on top of the 2x count as nothing and he made it pretty clear that they counted as nothing. I don't think it ever happend in a match but if it did would his ruling be wrong?

*edit
From 4.3.1

SCORED – A SMALL ball is SCORED when it is contained within a goal or SUPPORTED only by the goal
and/or other SCORED SMALL balls. A ball is not considered SCORED if it is touching a ROBOT of that
alliance or is SUPPORTED by a structural part of the field other than the goal

It says supported only by the goal. Balls on top of the 2x are support by the 2x ball also.

/*edit

[Combat Chuck]

According to the ruling by the Question and Answer System, that would have been an incorrect call.

[Sscamatt]

Originally Posted by Combat Chuck

According to the ruling by the Question and Answer System, that would have been an incorrect call.

Read the edit of post #24

[ngreen]

Originally Posted by Sscamatt

Read the edit of post #24

Refer to SUPPORTED.

If the 2x ball was remove would the 5 pt ball be supported by the goal. In most cases yes. Therefore the 5 pt balls on top would most like be counted and because the 2x is in the goal they would be doubled.

And SCORED does say: contained within a goal or SUPPORTED.........

[Mike8519]

I know it says that in the Q&A. I had one of my teammates question it because the head red said revision C only. No Q&A in Rev. C. He was pretty straight forward on the rules and very specific about what ones he enforced heavily. According to the definitions it should be scored, but the supporting device makes the situation flaky to some.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by Mike8519

I know it says that in the Q&A. I had one of my teammates question it because the head red said revision C only. No Q&A in Rev. C. He was pretty straight forward on the rules and very specific about what ones he enforced heavily. According to the definitions it should be scored, but the supporting device makes the situation flaky to some.

The Q&A is to help us understand what the rules are supposed to mean and for FIRST to get feedback on what points teams are having trouble with. The Q&A answers have never been the final answer. The latest revision of the rules is the final answer. I must admit I haven't redownloaded the rules lately myself. I should probably do that so I have something to read on the way to Phoenix! But the refs do have the final version handy at all times. Hopefully they don't have to refer to it much.

[fred]

I thought the combo of 303 and 237 was pretty much unbeatable. 237 could go straight to the bar, hang, and move around. 303 would be going around scooping up balls and capping. Then, you through in 56 which is a very good robot and you got a real great alliance.

Cappers and hangers really do work together well. I think that FIRST designed this game so that you really depend on your partner. Last year, if you had a good robot, very good driver, and some luck, you could win a match by yourself. But this year, teamwork is much more important.

[Mike K]

At VCU ball capping was not that big for our team til the finals. Because the amount of balls we got to the human player was large and his percent accuracy was so high having a ball capper on our side was better for us.