Send-Home Devices

[Monkey]

We were almost disqualified at a local scrimmage when our alliance partner used a send-home device. Use of this mecahnism does seem problematic and there's always the possibility of the opposition purposefully entangling themselves in order to disqualify the other alliance. What do you think about this? Should these devices even be used?

[ahecht]

We had a similar issue, see my other thread (http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...&threadid=2606).

[Monkey]

I can't find ur other thread! Link directly!

[Dima]

It would be stupid to discualify your opponent BECAUSE all that matters is the total number of points you get not whether you win or the opponent wins (in the qualifings)

[Alfred Thompson]

Send home devices seem pretty risky to me. I would not use one.
AS for getting a DQ for the other team, in the elimination rounds your score is based on your score not the other teams. That is just in the seeding rounds I think.

[Wetzel]

We have one. It shouldn't be an entaglement issue...
1/4" (maybe 1/8") PVC in 4 foot sections. Think that will pass the check in entaglement plausibility test. As well as I think it won't get tangled on the field.
We'll see.

[dlavery]

Originally posted by Wetzel
We have one. It shouldn't be an entaglement issue...

To comply with the philosophy of full disclosure of robot abilities (everyone should read this thread), we should point out that "we have a send-home device" is slightly different than "we have a send home device that we have actually tested and are highly confident actually works." Our "mouse" (or the "rat" when we weren't in a good mood) went in to the crate having been tested as a stand-alone subsystem, but never fully integrated with the rest of the robot. So we make no claims about how well it really works - yet (maybe that should be extended to the rest of the robot as well???).

Many on our team really wanted to finish integrating all the parts of the robot and actually test all the systems. But if we did that then we would not have anything do on Thursday at the Richmond Regional!

-dave

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Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
- Albert Einstein

[Wayne C.]

we have a send home device made of sections of linked 1' square tubular aluminum sections which pull out 30 feet. It has been thoroughly tested and it works like a dream, reliably. This "arm", while it runs on small wheels along the floor, is fairly rigid and should be high enough above the carpet not to be considered an entanglement. As described below- it is flimsy, as any arm 30 ft long deploying from a 3 ft box would be!. It is also easily changeable between rounds and others have been made to replace it should a rambunctious opponent get malicious.

In FRC Engineer update 144 I quote- "A telescoping arm, given sufficient lack of sharp features etc, would likely not present entanglement but might prove flimsy and unreliable. The ultimate determination of what presents a risk of entanglement is made by inspectors at each event"

To me it sounds like the INSPECTORS who clear the robot for competition will not let it enter the field if it is deemed an entanglement. It also sounds like there will be a great deal of inconsistency from regional to regional. At the NH kickoff Kamen offered "Kamen points" for a robot which could score in both end zones. We can do that easily

If there is a disqualification for us we do have an alternative device to replace the arm. But quite frankly it will make us play another strategy which I am CERTAIN our opponents will not like.

I would like to know whether all these judges at the pregame events we've been hearing about are actually FIRST certified inspectors and are totally familiar with all the fine points the FRC engineers gave us during the season?

Should they be used? Certainly!! Unless you have another way to simultaneously control two goals on the field and get the additional 10 pts.

My $.04 worth

WC

[CMC]

We are our own send home mouse bot??????????????????????????????????????????????? ?????????

[Sparky]

guys I have to say I was a little disappointed with how the entanglement rulings were made. Our team spent many hours making, what everyone an SBPLI will agree, is a rocking fast 18 foot arm with absolutely no possible entanglements. Then we get there and see loose wires and such. I thought they would have been DQ'd for sure but guess not. I think nationals will be much more strict however I have heard rulings were equally lax at KSC and Virginia

[Dodd]

What happens when a red alliance robot blocks the effort of a blue alliance robot to successfully maneuver their send-home device into the home zone in the closing seconds of a match? Assume that this move is strategically sensible, pointwise, in that particular match, be it qualifying or elimination.

Do you think red is attempting to entangle in blue's device and draw a DQ for blue? Would you protest this action if you were blue? If blue's "mouse" ran into the mouth of a red "ball eater", what happens?

Dodd

[Dan 550]

My team's bot's send-home is a roll of duct tape and a metal roller. The duct tapwe is affixed to the carpet, and it's light-adhesive blue painter's duct tape, so it's easily removed from the carpet during the post-match seconds. It doesn't pose any entanglement threat, no more than the floor itself, and doesn't actually damage the game surface. Legal? I think that's for the judges to decide, but I'd like feedback on the point.

[ahecht]

I hope you are joking! The manual specifically stated that no device may adhere to the carpet. This is most definatly illegal. In essance, you are using the adhesive to gain traction on the carpet (so your tether will not get bunched up when driven over), so you are in direct violation of rule M11. Plus, the blue painter's tape is masking tape, not duct tape.

[Sparky]

blocking of a mouse is certainly legal. I can roll my bot infront of yours, and infront of your mouse. I couldn't entrap it, say pin it to a rail or cage it, but I can certainly make it turn. this occurred in our regional when a team stopped another teams mouse and the judges didn't bat an eye.

[Wayne C.]

Sparky-

Feel free to block a "mouse" - but doesn't that defeat the purpose? The mouse doesn't get 10 pts but neither do you so it is a wash.

If in the last few seconds you decide to race home it is a matter of who is faster. Sounds good to me.

Of course if you can pick it up and drag it home with you there is a definite bonus.

Just my $.02

WC