Stamp or PIC?

[phrontist]

I'm looking to invest some cash in microcontrollers, both for personal projects and for my team, and I'm trying to decide between PICs or Stamps. At the moment I think it would be best to simply make a PIC programmer. Anyone out there partial to Stamps? Why?

[velocipenguin]

I prefer using PICs. For the price of one Basic Stamp, you could get quite a few PIC 16F877 microcontrollers, which are far more powerful and flexible than Stamps. PBASIC is a very simple programming language; it's very easy for straightforward tasks, but it's frustrating when used for more complex stuff. Free C and BASIC cross-compilers are available for PIC microcontrollers, so there's really no reason to spend the extra money on a Stamp just to avoid programming in assembler.

[miketwalker]

I think PICs are the best way to go. As was alread said, BASIC stamps are a pain in the butt when doing complex things. However, one thing I've noticed with the chip is that it's not very good with handling complex math operations, but if you make header files to do the math... you can get around that. BASIC has many of those trig functions and things built in however... that's the only plus I can think of though with BASIC... so yea, just go with PIC.

[KenWittlief]

actually a Basic Stamp board contains a PIC chip - I dont know if you can reprogram them to run assembly or C.

You can get 8 pin PIC chips that allow you to do some amazing things - two pins are power and gnd, that leaves you 6 IO pins to work with - but even still - they have design contests every once in a while and its amazing what some people have done with 8 pin PIC chips.

the PIC programmer pods are not expesive - and Im pretty sure you can program some PIC devices with a serial link without the need for a pod.

Ive been using MicroChips devices for about 8 years now and I think they are excellent.

[phrontist]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

the PIC programmer pods are not expesive - and Im pretty sure you can program some PIC devices with a serial link without the need for a pod.

Okay, I've deciced to go with PICs, but now the question is: What programmer? Any good ones available commercially for the 8-pin pics? I have modest soldering skills, but no PCB capability, can I make one?

[velocipenguin]

Originally Posted by phrontist

Okay, I've deciced to go with PICs, but now the question is: What programmer? Any good ones available commercially for the 8-pin pics? I have modest soldering skills, but no PCB capability, can I make one?

Take a look at this one:
http://www.jdm.homepage.dk/newpic.htm

It can program many PICs, including some of the 12-series 8-pin ones and the ever-popular 16F84. It's easy enough to build on perfboard if you don't want to make a PCB, and the parts cost is negligible.

Some PICs, such as the 16F877, have "self-programming" capabilities; that is, they can be loaded with special bootloader software that allows them to accept new programs via a serial link to two I/O pins without any fancy programming hardware. Unfortunately, they have to have the bootloader installed before they can do that, which requires a working programmer...

[Rickertsen2]

Choosing a programmer can be onfusing. I ahve tried several and talked to many people. A great programmer that programs most of te Microchip product line is:the Melabs EPIC programmer. This is what i use. You can get JUST the programmer by itself for $59 I would recommend you get the package deal for $99 which comes with the programmer, the AC adapter, parallel cable, and your choice of either a ZIF socket for 8,18,or 20 pin devices or 28 and 40 pin devices. Chose either ZIF socket, and buy the other one seperately. With this setup you can program most any PIC currently in production. Hmmm... that sounded sortof like an oxiclean comercial or something.

Btw.. If you are still interested in Basic stamps, the exorbitantly priced developement boards that parallox sells are nothing more than a serial cable, and a voltage reglaor all put together on a pretty looking PCB. You can build your own for under $15.

[FotoPlasma]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

actually a Basic Stamp board contains a PIC chip - I dont know if you can reprogram them to run assembly or C.

The BasicStamp1 and the BS2 both ran off of PICs, but everything after that used Scenix microcontrollers. The Scenix chips can be, themselves, programmed in ASM or C, but the BasicStamps can't.

If you google for something like "pic programmer", you'll come up with a good amount of results. The NOPPP (NO Parts PIC Programmer) was interesting, but there're many other possibilities for DIY programmers, as has been said.

[Kevin Watson]

These look pretty cool.

-Kevin

[Venkatesh]

I feel vaguely lonely in my partiality to Stamps. =)

I like the Basic Stamp rev.D (especially secondhand, as it is cheap). The BS1 can do pretty impressive things, even though it has only 8 I/O pins. And even though it is slow, it is quite usable. I have heard complaints from people about its lack of a watchdog timer, but there are ways to guard against crashes/code lockups/infinite loops. I spent quite some time last year trying to create a system to use interrupts with the Basic Stamp 2p, and I created a workable system. I'll dig out the schematics sometime soon.

My main problem with the Basic Stamp is its lack of a timer. For all the circuits I have used the Stamp rev.D in, I have had to use an external one. Other than that, the Stamp is quite powerful and can do more than you can think. Just try and get them secondhand, as they are more expensive than PICs, if bought directly from Parallax.

Btw, I have read somewhere that "anything the Stamp can do, the PIC can do better." The only exception I have been able to come up with concerns the DTMF instructions, but very few people use them anyway.

[velocipenguin]

Originally Posted by Venkatesh

The only exception I have been able to come up with concerns the DTMF instructions, but very few people use them anyway.

I suspect that some of the nicer PICs with built-in PWM generation hardware, when coupled with a bit of external filtering circuitry, could do an equally respectable job.

[Kevin Casper]

Originally Posted by Rickertsen2

Choosing a programmer can be onfusing. I ahve tried several and talked to many people. A great programmer that programs most of te Microchip product line is:the Melabs EPIC programmer. This is what i use. You can get JUST the programmer by itself for $59 I would recommend you get the package deal for $99 which comes with the programmer, the AC adapter, parallel cable, and your choice of either a ZIF socket for 8,18,or 20 pin devices or 28 and 40 pin devices.

I'll second this. It's what I use as well. It's one of the more reliable programmers.

Btw.. If you are still interested in Basic stamps, the exorbitantly priced developement boards that parallox sells are nothing more than a serial cable, and a voltage reglaor all put together on a pretty looking PCB. You can build your own for under $15.

Really? I thought there is a built in programmer on those as well. I could be wrong.