C Programing language. Is it the devil?

[NoRemorse]

C is sooo much more powerful.

My only thoughts are that they need to clean up thier default code and all. IT's wierd how you can write a function and it NEVER returns from it. Also they can;t make stupid mistakes like forgetting to initialize the outputs in the auton mode, and bad firmware. When it's all polished up hopefully by next year, i think it will shine!

[Larry Barello]

Originally Posted by NoRemorse

C is sooo much more powerful.

My only thoughts are that they need to clean up thier default code and all. IT's wierd how you can write a function and it NEVER returns from it. Also they can;t make stupid mistakes like forgetting to initialize the outputs in the auton mode, and bad firmware. When it's all polished up hopefully by next year, i think it will shine!

Why wait for IFI to clean up their default code? Throw it all away! There isn't much magic in the code. You just have to respect a couple calls & sequences (all noted with /*DO NOT CHANGE */) and after that you are free to party! I agree totally that the default code was warty as heck. Even the EDU default code was better structured and easier to follow. By the time I was done I saved the printf code and nothing else. Oh, I did reuse the file name "user_routines.c"...

One of the big reasons I re-wrote everything was to make sure I understood how it all worked. Sometimes it is easier to rewrite than to take the time to understand and work around someone elses choices. The down side of the rewrite is that one cannot use any of the tutorial stuff on IFI...

[Anthony Kesich]

Originally Posted by Larry Barello

Even the EDU default code was better structured and easier to follow

Is it just me or is this a recurring theme? Even last year with that dreaded thing called pBasic, the edu code was better than the FRC code (which was why i used it to run our bot lat year). Yes, I know this is off topic, so i'll add in my blurb about C

C, even if it is not the most common language, is essentially the granddaddy of all other modern languages. Look at Java or C++(duh) or C# (another duh) or J#, or php to a degree. All of them are structured like C and have very similar, if not identical syntax and basic functions (i.e. ++ << >> etc). If I had to narrow it down to one reason i would keep C over pBasic, it is the following:

X=X+1 becomes X++;

-Kesich

[Astronouth7303]

Isn't most of the default code headers and printf? I built mine on the default code, but totally destroyed anything user. As in: select>delete.

[Alan Anderson]

Originally Posted by Larry Barello

Why wait for IFI to clean up their default code? Throw it all away!...By the time I was done I saved the printf code and nothing else...

Funny, I hear a lot of people are throwing away the printf code and writing their own.

I was a complete newcomer to FIRST this year, with absolutely no experience with the IFI computers. My strategy was to make as few structural changes to the code as possible, so I could always go back and look at the default code to figure out how it was supposed to flow. I did end up with a separate "math utilities" file, and I am only just now on the verge of splitting out the autonomous code into its own file.

[seanwitte]

There is nothing wrong with PBASIC, expecially with the latest release. The only thing missing from the language syntax that I missed was structs. The issue with the old controller has more to do with the architecture of the stamp. The stamp 2sx has 8 banks of 2kb program memory, but they all share the same 32 bytes of RAM. You can write a separate source file for each of the 8 program slots, but unless you declare the same variables in the same order in each file you can't share variable values between slots. Its sort of modular, but not really.

The big advantage to C is the fact that you can break your code up into logical blocks based on shared interfaces. When you write a complex program it is much easier to work with small, fully tested modules than one huge file. Once you define your interfaces you can code as many implementations of each as you want. It makes it much easier to write platform independent code that will run on either the mini or FRC controller. It also makes it easier to share code between teams because you're only adding files to the project instead of pasting code.

You'll eventually learn that for a good developer the language is largely irrelevent. Aside from the normal caveats in any language, value is added by knowing how to solve problems, not in knowing the syntax.

[Astronouth7303]

Yes, but not knowing the syntax makes it dificult to solve the problem.

[Chris Hibner]

Originally Posted by seanwitte

The big advantage to C is the fact that you can break your code up into logical blocks based on shared interfaces.

I still say the biggest advantage to C is signed math. The hoops you had to jump through with pBASIC to get anything to work was rediculous. Look at the following two statements:

pBASIC:
PControl = Error * PGain - 127*(PGain-1) // What??????

C:
PControl = Error*PGain;

It seems to me that the C implementation is much easier, more intuitive, and requires less testing/debug to be sure you recentered yourself correctly around zero. The sad thing is, it just took me 2 seconds to write the C line, but about 5 minutes to figure out the pBASIC line. Given that, I'd rather have C any day.

[adventrx327]

learning java first, c was a much easier transition than pbasic

[K0r34nB0y]

pbasic is old and ugly. C may be old but its obviously good enough to spawn 5 (probably more, but all i can think of at the moment) new languages

[Astronouth7303]

C+, C++, C#, plus all the varients and standards of C (PIC C, ANSII C, NQC, etc.).

[CrashZero]

C is easier and better to use because of the fact that more people already know it or something very close to it making it easier for newcomers to learn it from someone who already has knowledge. I agree that the default code may have some serious problems but I simply did not have time to re-write it all. My team did not have the bot built until the day of shiping and then wanted something that would work. IN LESS THEN A DAY!!! so I gave them the default to see if the moters work. They were not happy that they couldn't test anything else so now I have a modified code but the base is still the default.