C Programing language. Is it the devil?

[10intheCrunch]

The problem with BASIC is that...well it really isn't a *real* language. The technology behind it is archaic, and stripped down besides. C is much more powerful, I believe easier to use, and certainly more applicable to real technology development than BASIC. I think its great that we can use C now. Now I just have to get out of MPLab...wonder if theres an equivalent in C for Java's Eclipse...

[velocipenguin]

PBASIC is great if you're playing around with simple microcontroller experiments in your basement. It's not at all well-suited to controlling large robots that need fairly sophisticated navigation and control algorithms in order to function optimally. PBASIC has its uses, but I don't think they include FIRST robots.

[The Lucas]

C is much better for students. It is a main stream language (probably the most common one) while PBASIC is a stripped down version of BASIC made by Parrallax. Of the 6 programming HS students on the team, 4 had already programmed in C (or C++) in school so I didn't have to teach them the language.

No student who has ever entered our program had ever heard of PBASIC before. Only one engineer on the team ever programmed in it before (he was a pro but he really wanted to use C like in the Atmel processors he uses at work). After he left in 2002, I had to teach everyone (students and a couple new mentors) PBASIC, because I had done a little programming in my rookie year. Some people had QBASIC or Visual BASIC before so most of my time was spent teaching limitations of the code (no function calls or signed math) and its inefficient syntax (more goto statements then I ever want to see again). It should be easier for teams to find mentors with C experience since it is such a common language.

Along with the increased power of C comes increased responsibly. There are many new ways to shoot yourself in the foot. Projects contain over a dozen files (and include many more) instead of 1-6 (depending on how many 2K banks you used). The biggest problem with C this year is the MPLAB complier and all of its bugs (yes I know I can use something else but that is not easy when you have a big programming team)

Overall programming in C is a more valuable learning experience for the students because they are likely to use it again in college and their careers. C will probably continue to be widely used in the future for low level applications. Basically all new languages are object-oriented or intended for web use. None of these languages are appropriate for a procedure oriented system like a robot. C is a superior language to PBASIC so FIRST should keep it. C is going to be around for a long time, so learn to like it, or start building a PBASIC to C converter. (I think Mike Soukup built a C to PBASIC converter, maybe it will work in reverse ).

[Ryan M.]

I agree with the last post by the Lucas. C is much more sutiable for someone who may eventually go on to do enginneering. It is a much more modern programming language, unlike BASIC, which only supports things like functions as clumsy after-thoughts.

Why I would pick C over PBasic for anything:

1. From a technical standpoint, C can do far more than PBasic could ever do. You simply can't have as much control over the robot with PBasic as you can with C. PBasic's structure is also very akwardly construed when compared to the majority of languages. We wrote algorithms on our robot this year that we could never have dreamed of putting on last year's PBasic bot, only because we couldn't write them in PBasic.
2. C is the "real programmers'" language (including C++, also). I highly doubt that many professional programmers use PBasic to create real world projects. Remember, FIRST is all about us pursuing careers in science/tech/engineering/etc. so why wouldn't they pick a language that we can use in our careers?
3. From a practical standpoint: Learning PBasic and then trying to use your knowledge as a stepping stone to other languages is very hard. If you know C, however, it is simple to learn C++ or Java, which are far more widely used than PBasic.

[jhnphm]

Originally Posted by 10intheCrunch

The problem with BASIC is that...well it really isn't a *real* language. The technology behind it is archaic, and stripped down besides. C is much more powerful, I believe easier to use, and certainly more applicable to real technology development than BASIC. I think its great that we can use C now. Now I just have to get out of MPLab...wonder if theres an equivalent in C for Java's Eclipse...

Eclipse supports C/C++.

But IDEs for losers. Real programmers use Vi

[deltacoder1020]

Originally Posted by jhnphm

But IDEs for losers. Real programmers use Vi

hear hear