YMTC: Bluabot dies while pinning

[Natchez]

Posted by Ken
did this actaully happen in a match?

Original YMTC Post
You Make The Call (YMTC) is a series of situations where you can play ref and make a call. YMTC situations are not meant to represent situations that have occurred at competitions.

Ken, I have intentionally tried to stay away from situations that have happened to teams. YMTC is just a way for CDers to "play ref" for a moment. I started this so people could talk about the rules without a specific team being caught in the middle. Some YMTCs will be, as Yan put it, not ambiguous at all and some will create for a lively discussion.

Lucien

[KenWittlief]

the reason I asked is I dont think this could happen in real life, unless the bot that was pinned had globe motors for a drivetrain

and if a bot was that weak you wouldnt waste your time pinning it - and you certainly wouldnt hit the Estop button to 'pin' a weak bot

and I cant imagine a team hitting the Estop as part of their strategy for any reason - you just dont know what the other team will do, but your bot will be dead for certain till the match is over.

[Andy A.]

Acutally Ken, I belive that it would be very easy to pin a bot in such a manner that it could never get out.

Even a bot with only a two drill motor drive train that was shut down could pretty easily do it. All you have to do is get your wheels perpendicular to thiers (imagine a 'T'). That way, the motors free wheeling have no effect on it, the pinned bot has to have the power to either slip the pinning wheels sidways (which depends on the wheel type and number of them) or otherwise tip the bot. The pinned bot would have no room to turn sideways, so unless it can crab, it's only choice is to try to push the pinning 'bot out of the way.

I've tried pushing my teams bot from the side. It only has two wheels powered by drill motors. Unless I pushed at the corners or fairly high up, she didnt budge an inch. A four wheel drive would be just about impossible for me to have moved, and I have the benifet of arms and and extra 30 pounds of weight on a FIRST bot.

I think this situation could happen.

-Andy A

[KenWittlief]

but you cant push a bot up against a wall if your wheels are perpendicular to theirs, you would not be able to apply any force against the other bot to pin it?

and if there was the slightest bit of space to move the pinned bot could rock back and forth and use its momentum to push you away.

but to go back to the original question, if you continue to pin a bot, whether you are powered or not, you get a 10 point penaly every 10 seconds

which means you would pretty much lose the match - which is how it should be since pinning another bot for a minute or two is against the spirit of the game (thats why we HAVE the penalties - you keep doing it, you keep getting penalties and you lose!)

[Jeff_Rice]

What if the penalties cause the points to go negative? You are hurting both alliances if you continue to throw flags.

[KenWittlief]

penalties always hurt the winnings teams qualifiacation points (is that the right word? for the losers score)

but the bottom line is the penalized team will lose the match.

[Yan Wang]

It's somewhat disappointing that a fully functioning RED robot cannot push a completely dead BLUE robot.

[KenWittlief]

ok this ones been beaten to death

got another one? the Kangaroo court is still in session! :^)

[Yan Wang]

I correct myself.... If "Bluabot starts to let out the magic smoke from their drive motors...", then I would probably run for a fire extinguisher and stop the match. That's MY call.

[Natchez]

Posted by Ken
ok this ones been beaten to death ... got another one?

Let's let this one ride for a while. The CD community is very knowledgeable about the rules and the votes on this one are all over the place. Here is how they stack up so far.

4 for I disqualify Bluabot
1 for I disqualify the Blue Alliance
2 for I disable Bluabot
5 for I throw one penalty flag
6 for I throw so many flags that I run out of flags and have to count on my fingers
5 for No problem ... I do nothing
4 for I jump in the arena and free Redabot from the jaws of Bluabot

This is great example of why being a FIRST ref is so difficult.

Also, I would urge us not to get too deep into whether a situation is likely. The first YMTC was very unlikely but it did address a certain rule. Remember, let's just have fun with this and see where it goes.

With all that written, there is nothing to say that multiple YMTCs can not run simultaneously. I'll come up with another one in a few minutes.

Thank you all for participating,
Lucien

[Pat Roche]

It seems to me tha if the motors begin to smoke, etc. the robot would be disabled to prevent damage to the machine or to prevent a fire.

Just a thought,

-Pat