Problems with referees?!

[LauraN]

I feel awkward even bringing this up, but I think it's important...so don't shoot the messanger, please.

I'm just a FIRST rookie, but considering how enthusiastic most FIRST teams are, I feel that I have a pretty good idea about FIRST. I'm sure everyone would agree that the atmoshpere that you feel at a regional event is completely amazing- there's trust and respect all around and there are amazing volunteers who just want to see high school students play with robots. =)

Which is why, even though I'm just a rookie, I can't BELIEVE I'm having to tell you this...but...

We actually had a problem with a referee being a whole slew of negative adjectives (impolite, confrontational, disrespectful) to our team.

We're trying to contact someone about the problem we encountered and were wondering if anyone on Delphi knew who would be best to talk to. PM me with suggestions. (How can I find contact info for regional event directors? Who's in charge of the refs? Who do you think would be the best person to contact? Stuff like that.)

Has anyone else had problems like this? I thought it was completely unheard of, and our whole team is really upset about it.

[KenWittlief]

this is not the place to discuss what a ref did - someone please direct the original poster in the right direction - thats all she's asking for, she has concerns she wants to address in the right place - not here.

lets not hold a kangaroo court for some refs actions here on CD - that would not be good in any aspect.

[Koko Ed]

Since most FIRST referees are composed of volunteers, often from FIST teams I do not think they would want to be on the side of rude, unreasonable behavior so it's not as likely to happen but they are human and not everyone thinks or acts the same.
My first year in FIRST down at the championship down in Orlando in 2002 the refs at the central field (I forgot the name of the field) just were on a disquakifying spree and when we had a contest there we went to the central veiwing area and the ref there snapped at me and said "If your team doesn't sit down right now, I'm disqualifying your team!". I was taken aback by that. Perhaps he had said something before and I didn't hear him but jeez was that harsh.

[Crop-Circles]

My suggestion would be to just forget about it. If someone at a regoinal is acting in an unprofessional matter, they probably either haven't been to many FIRST events, or they were just having a bad day. You need to think about the kind of pressure we sometimes put on refs. They are there to make sure teams play by the rules, but when they do their job they are often disrespected by the offending team. How often does a team go up to a ref and say "Thanks for the penalty!"

[Jack Jones]

Originally Posted by LauraN

I feel awkward even bringing this up, but I think it's important...so don't shoot the messanger, please.

I'm just a FIRST rookie, but considering how enthusiastic most FIRST teams are, I feel that I have a pretty good idea about FIRST. I'm sure everyone would agree that the atmoshpere that you feel at a regional event is completely amazing- there's trust and respect all around and there are amazing volunteers who just want to see high school students play with robots. =)

Which is why, even though I'm just a rookie, I can't BELIEVE I'm having to tell you this...but...

We actually had a problem with a referee being a whole slew of negative adjectives (impolite, confrontational, disrespectful) to our team.

We're trying to contact someone about the problem we encountered and were wondering if anyone on Delphi knew who would be best to talk to. PM me with suggestions. (How can I find contact info for regional event directors? Who's in charge of the refs? Who do you think would be the best person to contact? Stuff like that.)

Has anyone else had problems like this? I thought it was completely unheard of, and our whole team is really upset about it.

My advice is to let it go! Most every FIRST volunteer is a rookie too, and are doing their level best.

We are rookies also. I cringe whenever one of mine sucumbs to the pressure and acts out of character; but I understand how that could happen. I advise you to do the same.

[Rob]

We just got done competing at the UTC regional in Hartford, and I ca't say enough wonderful things about the refs there. Aidan and his crew were very professional and very clear on all calls. They even had the field announcer show what every penalty was for and ask the crowd to pay attention in order to avoid these penalties in the future.

Do remember that many refs have to deal with teams asking all sorts of questions. When a team is penalized for something, they often approcah the refs in a very energized and emotional state. Refs are often put on the defensive in these situations. After a long day of confrontations, the refs might get a bit snappy, it is only human. I think the best way to get along with the refs is to obey the rules to your best ability. When a penalty is handed out, please try to approach the refs in a calm way, they are very kowlegable of the rules, and very clear about what happened when you give them a chance to properly explain the situation.

Best of luck to everyone, and have a great time!

Rob

[SarahB]

We referees had a problem with a large number of team members, mentors, and score keepers being a whole slew of negative adjectives. Almost every time we threw a flag, made a call, or tried to warn people about illegal behavior, we had someone responding rudely and inappropriately. We also had a problem with trying to enforce the rules, trying to stay on schedule, trying to be fair, and trying to keep everyone informed and happy; all with only 4-5 refs(when FIRST recommends 6 as a bare minimum) and without any breaks except for lunch.
</complaining>

Referees are just volunteers. I’m sure that whoever you are talking about was just trying to do their job, and a couple other people’s jobs at the same time. They were probably trying to warn you about something you were doing wrong, while being under a lot of stress and trying to keep their eyes on all the other things they were supposed to be watching. It may have come off rude, but I’m sure that wasn’t their intention.

BTW: According to the rules, all the refs’ decisions are final. Be glad we weren’t being as strict as we could have been.

[Ryan Albright]

I agree with sarah,

I did not agree with some of the penalities we had against us, but then i also am ref for hockey and i understand were they are coming from. They have there own interpration of the rules as do we. They are trying to call the best game they can. Human is not perfect, so if we think they had a bad call lets rub it off and go out there and fix it the next time. Because as much as we think they are giving us crap or have it out for us, they are thinking the same thing about us.

[kacz100]

At the Peachtree Regional our team had no problems with the referees. Any questions about penalties the referees would completely explain the reason. However, I had a run in with a couple volunteers that tried to tell me I was doing something wrong when the rules clearly stated otherwise. I think the volunteers need to know what they are talking about because it created an unnecessary delay of a couple minutes in the matches. Back on topic the we had no problems with the referees and they were more than helpful

[Jonathan M.]

Our alliance was flipped and rammed about three times in a match by a team at UCF. The judges didn't call it. We ignored that and went on strong.

"I'm not one to try and stand up to the empire" - Mr. Griffith referring to the judges call.

[Andy Baker]

The ref needs to set the tone when there is a discussion over an issue. They are not the person who just spent 2 months on a robot that had an unfortuneate call against it. While I don't condone unreasonable attitudes on the part of the teams, it is understandable that a person on a team would be quite upset about a call.

So, the ref has to understand that people may not be happy with their call. However, they just have to call things the best they can. They really need to "set the tone" with how strict certain things are going to be called. Most importantly, they need to be consistent.

Andy B.

[Elgin Clock]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

They really need to "set the tone" with how strict certain things are going to be called. Most importantly, they need to be consistent.
Andy B.

Consistent calls on rules usually happen in 1 regional, but from regional to regional it varies I believe.

Case in point.
At NJ the teams were told that if you are selected in the alliance pairings and were in the top 8, you could refuse and still be chosen, while teams lower than the top 8 had no choice in the matter - be picked or don't play.
While looking back, I was questioning that call at the time, and thankfully it had no impact on the finals selction there, it was apparently a wrong call.
In UTC, we went with that ruling and denied being chosen and accepted another team's offer. We were then told and I think embarrased on stage with a different ruling than in NJ.

While rulings are usually consistent during 1 regional, I believe if nothing is said between regionals about wrong calls, then they are subject to be repeated, or slight the view of the rules of a team at another regional.

[sarah ciez]

refs. make the world go 'round.
ok, i agree with sarah b. on this one. anyone that made a foul admitted they were wrong, so i thought it was a non-issue.
also, there was some rule-bending in favor of the teams, so maybe we shouldn't be so harsh on the refs. =T
another point.. the ruling didn't change the outcome. when a penalty had changed an outcome, it wasn't for team 30 ..
can we end this conversation and talk about all the goodness of the regional now ? hehe

<33

[Solace]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

Consistent calls on rules usually happen in 1 regional, but from regional to regional it varies I believe.

Case in point.
At NJ the teams were told that if you are selected in the alliance pairings and were in the top 8, you could refuse and still be chosen, while teams lower than the top 8 had no choice in the matter - be picked or don't play.
While looking back, I was questioning that call at the time, and thankfully it had no impact on the finals selction there, it was apparently a wrong call.
In UTC, we went with that ruling and denied being chosen and accepted another team's offer. We were then told and I think embarrased on stage with a different ruling than in NJ.

The way that rule was interpretted at UTC is the way that it has been interpretted in years past. now, i don't know if the rules have changed (and they very well could have), but i think it is actually the fault of the refs at NJ for interpretting the rule incorrectly. either way, 571 would like to apologize for whatever embarassment our initial choosing of 237 may have caused, we would have loved to have you on our alliance.

This rule has always been a problem, and there are always a few teams that don't know about it and get in trouble. in the future, it should probably be announced beforehand so that things like this do not happen.

[Tom Bottiglieri]

now that i think about it, that could be used as a good strategy if you know 2 top 8 teams are wanting to be together...