Ungracious and unprofessional...

[KenWittlief]

lots of times when a bot gets knocked over the knocker will run over to the knockee after the match and apologize, and see if any damage has been done, and if anything can be done to help them fix it

during practice at pittsburg our bot ran all the way across the field in auton mode (cause IF autontime=200 is a bug :^) and rammed an opponent bot

we did damage to our own bot and theirs was fine - but I hope every team adopts this as an act of caring - if you bash someone else bot talk to them after the match - make sure everything is ok

wait, wasnt there on contest like this in 'Hitch hikers guide to the galaxy?'

[adventrx327]

This isnt nearly as ungracious and unprofessional as the actions of someone i saw at the portland regional. I dont know why, but I saw him sneak over to team 473 (montana i think) and turn of their surge protector at the end of the day... they were charging a normal and backup battery. And yes, i am sure he wasnt on their team because he wasnt wearing their blue shirts. I dont know why, but unplugging someone's batteries is just disgusting. Anyone in here with me on this?

[fred]

Originally Posted by adventrx327

This isnt nearly as ungracious and unprofessional as the actions of someone i saw at the portland regional. I dont know why, but I saw him sneak over to team 473 (montana i think) and turn of their surge protector at the end of the day... they were charging a normal and backup battery. And yes, i am sure he wasnt on their team because he wasnt wearing their blue shirts. I dont know why, but unplugging someone's batteries is just disgusting. Anyone in here with me on this?

I am absolutely with you if that is true. We usually have a battery "czar" that keeps an eye on our batteries although I don't think we had one at Chesapeake, our batteries were okay though. there was also one thing at Chesapeake that bothered me a little. In one match, there was a team that goes under the ball dispenser and waits for the balls to come down. They then catch them in a net on their robot and then they go over next to the ball corral and spit them out. I think most people would know what kind of robot I'm talkin about. So anyway, in this one match, another team came over and pushed this one robot away from the ball distributor. After the match (which the first team won anyway), a person from the team that was pushed away went and really berated the team that did the pushing. From what I've heard of the exchange, it was something that I would expect from an athletic event, not a FIRST competition. I know that everyone is stressed getting 5 hours of sleep or less per night, but I think that this went a bit far. I thought that it was a legitimate strategy and there were plenty of examples of it at Trenton. Did anyone else see it or have any thoughts on what I said? Thanks.

[Ilyushin269]

Originally Posted by fred

there was also one thing at Chesapeake that bothered me a little. In one match, there was a team that goes under the ball dispenser and waits for the balls to come down. They then catch them in a net on their robot and then they go over next to the ball corral and spit them out. I think most people would know what kind of robot I'm talkin about. So anyway, in this one match, another team came over and pushed this one robot away from the ball distributor. After the match (which the first team won anyway), a person from the team that was pushed away went and really berated the team that did the pushing. From what I've heard of the exchange, it was something that I would expect from an athletic event, not a FIRST competition. I know that everyone is stressed getting 5 hours of sleep or less per night, but I think that this went a bit far. I thought that it was a legitimate strategy and there were plenty of examples of it at Trenton. Did anyone else see it or have any thoughts on what I said? Thanks.

I am not sure when this took place if it was in the quarter finals or before.... But I am the driver of team 11 and I did push this robot away from the "Ball Waterfall" but I made sure as to not destroy the robot in any way. They then came to our alliance side and grabbed our balls that fell and tried getting to the other side. I once again blocked them from getting to thier side and someway or another did become immoble. Afterwards there was no confrontation at all until back in the pits where a driver from the opposing alliance went up to another member of the opposing alliance(from a different team obviously) about being pushed. Turns out I think that balls were being passed from one human player to another and hit the driver making him lose grip on the 2x ball. But Team 11 and our alliance partners were never yelled at or confronted.

[OneAngryDaisy]

Originally Posted by Ilyushin269

I am not sure when this took place if it was in the quarter finals or before.... But I am the driver of team 11 and I did push this robot away from the "Ball Waterfall" but I made sure as to not destroy the robot in any way. They then came to our alliance side and grabbed our balls that fell and tried getting to the other side. I once again blocked them from getting to thier side and someway or another did become immoble. Afterwards there was no confrontation at all until back in the pits where a driver from the opposing alliance went up to another member of the opposing alliance(from a different team obviously) about being pushed. Turns out I think that balls were being passed from one human player to another and hit the driver making him lose grip on the 2x ball. But Team 11 and our alliance partners were never yelled at or confronted.

I believe Fred is talking about another occurence- and I was right there when it happened. The way i saw it was, a proud mother of a rookie team saw this game differently than it really is. Many people view it as an non-battlebot competition, with NO contact at all. The reality is: there will be some contact, and please think before you speak.


*This is my opinion only and does not represent Team 341*

[Crop-Circles]

I'm reminded of something Dean said at kickoff this year. Something like "some teams will cheat, some will not."

I saw a match in GLR where a team intentionaly knocked another team off of the bar. In the rules, it is stated that you cannot build a robot with the intent of damaging other robots. However, their robot was not built for the purpose of knocking other robots off. Besides, it says in the rules that you can't descore small balls, but it says nothing about knocking bots off the bar.

Which brings me back to what Dean said. This game is designed with the understanding that not all teams will play with both grace and professionalism. If a team knocks over your bot, whether it was accidental or not, they probably noticed. If it was intentional, then that team probably has interpeted the rules to say its okay. If the refs don't say anything, then neither should you. Leave that team to figure out gracious professionalism for themselves.

Besides, the best way to teach is through example.

[Jonathan M.]

At UCF a robot tipped us over and then rammed us three times. The judges didn't call them for it but it sure was a mean thing to do. X3

In another match at UCF we were haning on the bar and another team grabbed onto our hook with theirs to try and knock us off, and it ended up breaking our hook and making us fall over. Our robot was fine because we built it to take that sort of thing. But the team did come over and apologize (mainly because they were also our next alliance). We fixed the hook in no time and were ready to go. I was really angry about it until I heard that they apologized. You'd be suprized how well that sort of thing works. =P

On a side note, our robot was not built to right itself up after falling, but here are examples of MIRACLES:
A) Our robot gets pushed off the platform when we're tring to hang by a good robot, and we land on a 2x ball. We use the 2x ball and our arm to right our selves up. We didn't have enough time to hang but it was really cool.
B) We were again pushed off of the platform, but we landed on a stationary goal. (Remember we did not build our robot to be able to right itself up) We open our 2x ball grippers throw our arm back and use the goal to right our selves. Get onto the platform, where we are pushed off AGAIN onto a stationary goal on the other side. We used the same strategy and righted our selves up got onto the platform and hanged anyway.

Wow James really can drive that robot well.

[BlueOrion]

Originally Posted by adventrx327

This isnt nearly as ungracious and unprofessional as the actions of someone i saw at the portland regional. I dont know why, but I saw him sneak over to team 473 (montana i think) and turn of their surge protector at the end of the day... they were charging a normal and backup battery. And yes, i am sure he wasnt on their team because he wasnt wearing their blue shirts. I dont know why, but unplugging someone's batteries is just disgusting. Anyone in here with me on this?

Wow that is worthy of serious action to be taken if it could be proven that someone did that and it was detrimental to the team. Hopefully you or someone else plugged the batteries back in though...that kind of thing deserves disqualification or something.

On another note, at Chesapeake during one of the quarterfinal matches, a team from the opposite alliance got its arm stuck in 1257's net and wound up mangling 1257's net and frame a bit as well as potentially keeping 1257 from being completely off of the platform. But like many other things that happen in a round, it happened and it was unintentional. I just hope teams keep in mind that it is a privilege to be part of FIRST and to have the opportunity to compete with such great people. Dean Kamen, Mike Wade, Jim Moore, and all of the other organizers, announcers, judges, and volunteers, not to mention the students...they put their heart and soul into FIRST and their effort doesn't deserve to be met with immaturity and unprofessional behavior. The point of this whole thing is to have fun, but to also build people and skills.

[10intheCrunch]

Sacramento had its share of both good and bad. To name one of each:

Good: During one match, a robot was beached on a ball. In an awesome gesture, their opponent came over and pushed them off the ball and let them continue the match.

Bad: On Friday, one particular team's robot gained a reputation for playing dirty. They were a big and powerful robot, and several teams complained of being driven up upon, whereupon the offending team spun their treads and ripped up electronics boards and such, clearly not intending to get off the robot underneath. I never saw it myself, in the pits all day as I was, but there was definately a lot of anger about it from some sectors...

[Adam Y.]

There was some iffy behavior on this topic at the SBPLI Regional. And I use the word "iffy" loosely because I don't really see it as a problem, although some might.

I reall don't remeber seeing anything there that was at all iffy. Can you elaberate. In fact it was actually quite nice with all the people walking up to us and helping fix our robot.

[Joe Matt]

Gracious Professionalism is like being cool. You don't know reall know until you are pointed out for being so. And if say you are cool, you arn't. If someone says you arn't cool, then they arn't cool. It's like that. GP is karma, it's something that dosn't need to be recognized, but is just known by others and yourself. Don't let it get to your head.

I think we need that little metaphor for people to think about.

[Robert Hafner]

I was really dissapointed this year with the way the regional we went to went. Our team was quite intentionally rammed into repeatedly and then intentionally tipped over during a semi-final match. Then the team who did it cheered. The drive team was cheering at the fact that they tipped us over. It bothered me because in the four years I've been involved with FIRST, I never thought I would ever see something that nasty happen by any team.

[Yan Wang]

I also think that people need to realize that during a match, people are playing to win. If their intention is otherwise, it's visible to everyone else and they will be remembered for their malicious intent. But most of the time, it's just a game. And when people build robots with 12" wheels and try climbing 6" platforms, tipping needs to be expected. Your robot is only as good as you design it to be. I figure that when I am driving in Canada in 10 days, I will either tip or be tipped at least once. And I won't feel too bad about it unless that other teams starts ramming me while I'm on the ground. And hopefully that other team that I tip won't think that I love seeing other team's robots fall and possibly damage itself. It's like any sport - expect some injuries, but try not to be dissuaded from your goals by such petty incidents.

[Tyler Olds]

A good way that I look at things is if my robot was pushed over, it wasn't the other teams fault, but it was a design flaw on behalf of my team.

Robots should be made robust and durable; I think that preventing your robot from tipping over falls into this category.

When I am driving in the middle of a match, I normally don't have time to stop and think "oh maybe I shouldn't try to push their robot because it will break, or it tips over easily” my mind is set on winning the match.

[Ashley Weed]

In my experiences driving, I had one robot that was prone to tipping, and we tipped ourselves all the time going across the ramp in 2001. In 2003, we were flipped once on top of the ramp. I believe it was an accident as there were several robots attempting for the ramp at the same time, and we got the short end of the stick. However, if you build a robust robot, you will get yourself out of the situation. We were able to use our mast and arm to lift ourselves upright, and drive onto the platform.

..... I have seen a lot of tipping this year, I would suggest talking it over with your opponents if you have a problem with it. They might even suggest something to help you prevent from tipping in the future.