Beatty's 2004 Robot

[Jay Lundy]

You know, I considered not posting, but, seriously, what harm is going to come of this? Some team is not going to build something or come up with some strategy to beat beatty from one small picture. If they wanted to go for the element of surprise, well they still have that. Their robot doesn't look like much from the picture, and it never does, but they always have some crazy design that manages to do everything effectively.

If I released a picture during the build period, then I would see something wrong with that, but no harm can possibly come from this.

And if FIRST didn't want them to be browsed publicly, they never would have uploaded them in the first place. It's not like a zip file magically appears on a webserver. If they just wanted to use it to transfer to multiple locations I'm sure they have private webservers they can use for that.

Originally Posted by Jay Lundy

You know, I considered not posting, but, seriously, what harm is going to come of this? Some team is not going to build something or come up with some strategy to beat beatty from one small picture. If they wanted to go for the element of surprise, well they still have that. Their robot doesn't look like much from the picture, and it never does, but they always have some crazy design that manages to do everything effectively.

If I released a picture during the build period, then I would see something wrong with that, but no harm can possibly come from this.

And if FIRST didn't want them to be browsed publicly, they never would have uploaded them in the first place. It's not like a zip file magically appears on a webserver. If they just wanted to use it to transfer to multiple locations I'm sure they have private webservers they can use for that.

Although I agree with you about it coming up on the 4th week of regionals and its not like its late in the build so it doesn't make as much of a difference, you did get into FIRSTs site and get a hold of a file that really isn't supposed to be made public (from what Ive been told) until after The Championship Event. Although it was FIRST's blunder that they did not protect that directory, it was still a bad move. I'm sure the people at FIRST assumed that the participants of the competition would be a bit more gracious and professional when it comes to using their website and not abusing it.

Finally, you did go against a team's wishes and post a picture of their robot. Part of Hammond's tradition is to wait and unveil at the competition. Thats almost like an unwritten rule. If they wanted to unveil their robot now, they would have, but they didnt....they decided to wait. IMO, that really wasn't the smartest thing to do. If the team doesn't want a picture of their unreleased robot, that decision is totally up to them.

Although no major harm came out of this, I'm pretty sure there will be some angry people. Next time use your head and think if what you are going to do is in spirit of the competition.

Thats just my opinion..

-D.J.

[Jay Lundy]

Originally Posted by D.J. Fluck

I'm sure the people at FIRST assumed that the participants of the competition would be a bit more gracious and professional when it comes to using their website and not abusing it.

In no way did I abuse their website. They put a zip file in a directory which is meant for public access (the whole point of it is so people can find out who got awards). It may have been a mistake on their part, but please don't accuse me of abusing their website.

Originally Posted by D.J. Fluck

Part of Hammond's tradition is to wait and unveil at the competition.

Untrue. I remember in 2002 they released a picture of their robot possibly during the build season but definately before their first regional and it was the cause of great specualtion on these forums.

Personally I enjoy it when people take such an interest in my team's robot that they go out of their way to post pictures of it or talk about it. Plus their first competition starts in 4 days.

If anyone from beatty would like me to remove the picture I would be glad to but I stand by my decision.

[CrazyCarl461]

Originally Posted by D.J. Fluck

Part of Hammond's tradition is to wait and unveil at the competition.

I remember last year, when Josh Hambright crashed CD when he posted the first pictures of the Beast after the practice day of the Midwest Regional. So many people tried to view them, that the server had to be reset because of it (or so the legend goes).

[activemx]

I dont think getting a picture in any way from First's website is abusing their site. i think they posted a zip with all the pictures for other teams, so there is nothing wrong in getting the picture from there. If i knew it was there i would have seen it too. secondly i dont think think there is any reason to argue. Its just a picture i dont think 71 will be disappointed because of a picture. maybe they would be "aww darn" it got leaked before they wanted to show it at the regional. thats just my asumption and i dont think anyone should be annoyed because of that.
~ Akshay

[Greg Perkins]

I think beatty wil go up, hang on the bar and have a Pepsi dispensing arm to deliver cold, refreshing Pepsi's to all the feild workers, judges, and refs for some brownie points

As Beatty is winning over the judges approval, they would be breaking all the rules, but would go completely undetected because they have lured the judges into thier trap....

honestly, i hope the feild workers are coke drinkers..because then they would be immune against Beatty's cunning manuevers

[Joshua May]

Originally Posted by Greg Perkins

I think beatty wil go up, hang on the bar and have a Pepsi dispensing arm to deliver cold, refreshing Pepsi's to all the feild workers, judges, and refs for some brownie points

As Beatty is winning over the judges approval, they would be breaking all the rules, but would go completely undetected because they have lured the judges into thier trap....

honestly, i hope the feild workers are coke drinkers..because then they would be immune against Beatty's cunning manuevers

Blasted Pepsi-robots, will they ever learn, Sprite always prevails.

Seriously, I can't wait to really see their robot, however, I have a regional the same week as theirs, so I don't suppose I'll get to see goo footage/pics of it until after my own regional.

[WakeZero]

Originally Posted by D.J. Fluck

Finally, you did go against a team's wishes and post a picture of their robot. Part of Hammond's tradition is to wait and unveil at the competition. Thats almost like an unwritten rule. If they wanted to unveil their robot now, they would have, but they didnt....they decided to wait. IMO, that really wasn't the smartest thing to do. If the team doesn't want a picture of their unreleased robot, that decision is totally up to them.
-D.J.

You know, it probably was a bad move on his part for not getting permission first. However, I don't think anyone should flame him over it, especially Beatty

71 is a great team, they should feel honored to have the respect and admiration that so many teams give them, to the point that every year teams do stuff like this to get a sneak peak at their Beast

[Brandon Martus]

Originally Posted by Jay Lundy

And if FIRST didn't want them to be browsed publicly, they never would have uploaded them in the first place. It's not like a zip file magically appears on a webserver. If they just wanted to use it to transfer to multiple locations I'm sure they have private webservers they can use for that.

But -- some things get overlooked, though, especially when pressed for time. They are busy with many more important things, I'm sure. I would think if they wanted these publically accessable on purpose, they would have a link to them or some sort of announcement.

[Ken Leung]

Originally Posted by Brandon Martus

But -- some things get overlooked, though, especially when pressed for time. They are busy with many more important things, I'm sure. I would think if they wanted these publically accessable on purpose, they would have a link to them or some sort of announcement.

Originally Posted by WakeZero

71 is a great team, they should feel honored to have the respect and admiration that so many teams give them, to the point that every year teams do stuff like this to get a sneak peak at their Beast

People, lets not continue the endless debate about whether or not you think it goes against team 71's wishes that this picture is posted in the forum. The only people who know that answer is team 71 themselves. If you really care about what they think, you should notify members on their team about this situation, and await their respond.

Jay has been around FIRST and this forum a long time now, and I have 100% faith that he will respect team 71's wishes to remove the post if that is indeed what they want. And if team 71 doesn't mind the picture in here, then we have no problem.

Let's try to resolve this conflict instead of having another ethical debate about what's right and wrong. If you want to recommend any more suggestions to Jay about what he should've done, send him a PM instead. I am sure he will appeciate your effort to make him a better poster.

[Jason Morrella]

Don't worry about it Jay - you did nothing wrong.

some observations:
* There is a thread in this forum asking about a particular robot.
* There is a public web site (FIRST) which made pictures of every robot accessible.
* Jay just posted a link sharing what he found with everyone else - which is what everyone seems to claim this forum is meant to do.
* If someone has a problem with that picture being available on a public web site - then complain to those who put it there (FIRST). If teams tell FIRST they would rather those pics not be made public in future seasons, then I'm sure FIRST will consider that.

The kid did exactly what CD encourages - took information he knew, that others were asking about, and shared it with others. Every person had access to see pictures of other robots on the FIRST site, it's not like Jay displayed some picture he illegally obtained. He just helped those who didn't know where to find the pictures he (and others) were able to view. Also, it's WEEK FOUR of the regionals - if some pic was displayed during the build cycle, then I could see how some secretive team might be upset. But in week 4? I guess the message being sent to Jay, 254, and other teams here is that they should stop being so open with their information - posting pics of their robots as they build them DURING the build cycle, explaining everything about their robot and what they do instead of keeping it secret, sharing code and programming info when teams ask, sharing information (like this picture) which they know of when OTHER teams ON THIS FORUM are asking to see. Instead, he gets flamed for doing exactly what the CD site claims to be all about - sharing information/knowledge you have found with others who are asking for that info.

Those who have a problem with it have a problem with FIRST. And to those who keep bringing up "permission" - again, your problem is with FIRST. I didn't see KenW or others asking "permission" from 254 or 60 to post totally fabricated and false information about their teams before he/they decided to do so a few weeks ago - but nobody flamed them for being so ungracious and irresponsible with their comments. If the feeling is that every person on CD should ask for direct permission from a team before posting any information about that team - fine - but be consistent and apply it across the board to ALL posts about ALL teams made by people not on those teams.

If people have an issue with those pictures being public, then they need to complain to FIRST. I haven't seen anyone form 71 criticize Jay, and even if they are disappointed the picture is out there, my guess is that they are surprised or upset FIRST made those pictures available to view - not that a student shared those public pics on CD.

Jay - thanks for sharing information you had access to with others who were asking for that info. If the CD web site feels that is now something they want to discourage, fine.

[Bill Beatty]

Hey folks! This is Team #71! Of course our robot walks on water!

All kidding aside, we are very flattered that there is so much interest in the BEAST 2004.

Here are some facts.

We did not think that the yearbook photo would be available until after the competition.

If some enterprising person can get the picture and post it, so be it. It is fair game. It was taken very early during the assembly phase of construction.

Our practice site and field (photo) are excellent. It's cost was minimal because most of the materials were donated by local suppliers. The field was constructed by the students, mentors, and mentor's wives. It was structurally finished in five days.

Looking forward to seeing all of our FIRST friends and making new ones at Evanston, Michigan, and Atlanta.

We wish everyone the very best of luck.

Bill

[Joe Matt]

Sexy field. Just wondering, are your ball tees light based activation, or just human activation for the ball drop?

[Yan Wang]

Can we assume that by the lack of white tape on the field that this year's Beast will not be tracking the line? I wonder what type of positioning system it has.

[IMDWalrus]

Originally Posted by Yan Wang

Can we assume that by the lack of white tape on the field that this year's Beast will not be tracking the line? I wonder what type of positioning system it has.

Two points:

1. Never assume anything. Ever. Especially when it comes to Beatty.
2. How do we know if the field was finished here? Maybe they laid the tape down afterwards

Still...tape tracking is horrendously slow, from what I've seen. I don't know what they're doing, but I'd guess that it doesn't involve the tape...even though we have no proof of that.