TechnoKat design usage, communicated with judges

[Andy Baker]

All,

I have debated about writing this note to the CD community, but I think that it's probably the best thing to do. My worry is that we don't want to sound like we are waving a flag too much or tooting our horn on this issue too much. Simply put, I think that we better let you guys know what our team is doing as we communicate with judges at the upcoming regional and FIRST Championships.

At every regional, we try to convey to the judges that we "give away" some of our previous year's designs. They seem to not understand why or how we do this, and we have never won an award for this as a team. Personally, I have been recognized for this effort, but our effort has been team-wide and not just through my actions. So, what I am trying to do it get the team recognized for this.

We have put together a document that has some specific claims on it. I'll paste the text here:

----------------------------

TechnoKats – Leading the way in publishing detailed designs

The TechnoKats Robotics Team has pioneered an effort in FIRST Robotics that began during the summer of 2000. It all started when the team decided to publicly post detailed designs of their past year’s drivetrain components. This design was published in a way that another FIRST team could use the same prints to make parts for their robot during the next FIRST Competition season.

Over the years, the TechnoKats have published these 8 designs:
2000 - Gear Switching and Motor Mount Design (complete mechanical details)
2001 – Auto-balance gyro code (exact text code, given to teams during the 2001 season)
- Dual Motor Gear Switching Assembly (complete mechanical details)
- Extrusion Framing System – kit of parts
2002 – 6 Motor Drive Assembly w/ Pneumatic Shifting of 4:1 Gearbox (complete mechanical details)
2003 – Automated dead reckoning test code (compete code text)
- 2 speed, Shift-on-the-fly Gearbox (complete mechanical details)
- TechnoKat Trick Wheel (complete mechanical details)

Our team’s goals of publishing these designs is two-fold:
1. to boost the competitive level of FIRST robots
2. to provide under-resourced teams with proven design packages
Both goals have been reached, but we continue to strive for improvement.

Many FIRST teams have used one or more of these published designs. These teams have either notified us that they have used our designs during the past 4 years, or they have used a derivation of our published designs:
7, 48, 68, 70, 73, 81, 97, 115, 168, 177, 179, 192, 217, 222, 225, 226, 229, 234, 237, 246, 254, 343, 359, 376, 380, 399, 422, 462, 473, 476, 535, 585, 599, 606, 647, 696, 713, 716, 830, 839, 858, 905, 957, 968, 1018, 1024, 1059, 1083, 1156, 1369, 1433

This totals 51 teams. Numerous teams have credited their team’s winning performance to our designs.

Since starting this design-publishing trend, other teams have also published their designs. These teams include 116, 217, 226, and 716. All have given credit to the TechnoKats for starting this trend. Thanks go out to those teams for continuing this movement.

-----------------------

My point is this: We want to be accurate with this claim. Let me know if you think that this information is false. However, keep in mind that this is over the past 4 years, so some of you may not know that your team depended on us a bit. Check with you team leaders if you need to. Also, if your team has used a portion of our designs and you don't see your team number on this list, feel free to send me (andrew.r.baker@delphi.com) a note and I will add you to the tally.

(edit) Also - if you have inquired about these designs, but not ever used them on your robot, please tell me. I probably put your team number on this list, since I knew you inquired. I just didn't know if you used the designs in the end or not. - thanks (/edit)

We will be giving out this letter to the judges at the Midwest Regional, starting tomorrow. We will also be using this information at the Championships. If I need to make any corrections, they will be made before Atlanta.

I do want to thank team 47 for creating this website so we can all share designs and ideas with other teams. This website is the single most important thing that has improved FIRST over the past 4 years, in my opinion.

Take care,
Andy Baker

[Karthik]

Andy,

Over the past few years, we have seen a transition in FIRST with regards to drivetrains. In increasing numbers, teams are employing shifters. It's almost coming to the point where you need to have a shifter to be competitive. Designing a shifting gearbox is no small task. I believe, and I know that many others in the FIRST community agree with me, that one of the main reasons shifters have become ao common is because of the White Papers your team has released.

Making a shifting design available to all teams puts these teams in a position where they can improve upon this design, or maybe even make the next breakthrough. As more teams have shifters, teams will start looking for a design breakthrough that will give them a competitive advantage. This is a case where co-operation furnishes innovation.

So not only have the TechnoKats made life easier for many FIRST teams, they have also set up our community for further innovation. What could be more inspiring.

I hope that FIRST sees the power of this accomplishment, and chooses to recognize the TechnoKats with some sort of award.

Kudos on a great job over the years.

[Matt Reiland]

Andy,

I totally agree with everything in your post, and make sure that everyone goes out of there way on our team to explain where the base came for our versions of the transmissions. The design has worked well for us last year and this year and I really wish you guys would get an award for not only the design but the publishing of a COMPLETE set of build and assembly drawings as well as fabrication tips and pictures. In my mind you have suceeded in advancing the level of competition on many robots out there.

Matt

[George1902]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

These teams have either notified us that they have used our designs during the past 4 years, or they have used a derivation of our published designs:
...1083...

Andy,

Unfortunately, we never successfully used 45's transmission on one of our robots or prototypes. However, through our failures, we did learn. I'm confidant that neither the 2 gearboxes on our 2003 robot nor the 4 gearboxes on our 2004 robot would have been as successful without the knowlege and experience we gained from attempting 45's design.

Perhaps it is more accurate to say that we were inspired by 45's transmissions.

The Technkats entire team should receive recognition for their generosity. We all know that designs like these don't spring forth from the mind of a lone genious. The come from an infinite number of monkeys using an infinite number of CAD programs for an infinite amount of time!!

Three cheers for 45 and their monkeys!!

[JVN]

Yep...
We adapted a "Techno-shifter" to our own needs this fall, and on this years robot, and have been VERY happy with the results. Thanks again to 45 for sharing and for continuing to innovate, and promoting the advancement of FIRST mechanical design.

More Kudos to 45 from 229.

John

[Andy Brockway]

Andy,

I would hope that very few Teams would worry about your team blowing its own horn. We coach our students on presenting to the judges and the number one speech is "It is not bragging, the judges WANT to know, that is why they are asking!"

Yuor team's papers have certainly helped many more teams then are listed. I am just now experiencing the feeling of joy when, while looking over someone elses robot, I realize that they are running Team 716's gearbox. Several never said a word ahead of time.

I also want to thank Team 47 for this website. There is so much info that has helped our team.

[Rich Kressly]

Originally Posted by Andy Baker

All,

I have debated about writing this note to the CD community, but I think that it's probably the best thing to do. My worry is that we don't want to sound like we are waving a flag too much or tooting our horn on this issue too much. Simply put, I think that we better let you guys know what our team is doing as we communicate with judges at the upcoming regional and FIRST Championships.

At every regional, we try to convey to the judges that we "give away" some of our previous year's designs. They seem to not understand why or how we do this, and we have never won an award for this as a team. Personally, I have been recognized for this effort, but our effort has been team-wide and not just through my actions. So, what I am trying to do it get the team recognized for this.

Andy Baker

Andy,
Go for it! 45 deserves all the recognition it can get for its selfless acts of Gracious Professionalism. I understand and applaud your desire to do this the "right way". Describing your own team's impact on the FIRST community as a whole to judges can be difficult because it can be seen in a different light by some. I know 103 has struggled with that delicate balance of how to be gracious toward all others AND seek recognition for the incredible efforts your own team makes. Rest assured, what you are doing here is both positive and inspirational.

Going to the extent you are going to ensure fairness here just further proves why you and 45 are worthy of all the judging recognition you can get.
45's impact on the success teams feel and the inspiration students receive all over the country is absolutely immeasurable. Your willingness to share designs for everyone's benefit is a model for industry and society and clearly demonstrates what Dean's vision of coopertition is all about. Good luck at the events and see you in Atlanta.

[Ricky Q.]

Andy-

Although my team has not employed any of the designs shared by the TechnoKats over the years, we have always been impressed with you and your team for your efforts. Your white papers are always looked upon by our engineers and students with respect and admiration for the effort that is placed into them. I have personally been surpised that more recognition has not been given to Team 45 for their efforts and I hope this helps you get what you and the team deserves. Kudos to your efforts to continue to improve FIRST and the quality of the teams involved with it.

See you tommorrow,
Ricky

[Elgin Clock]

http://www.technokats.org/documents/chairman.pdf


What you quoted me as saying there is right on!! We used your design in 2002 (I believe) and won the NYC Regional that year and a couple other awards.
Thanks again, and hopefully you get the credit you deserve (from FIRST) for this unselfish act of sharing knowledge.

edit: Although, looking at that page - I think the design we used is the first one pictured, not the second one.

[team222badbrad]

After reading your post I decide to reply. Team 222 has probably read about your designs and ideas. I do not believe we have ever accually used them.

We may have used this but I do not recall what this document is about? 2000 - Gear Switching and Motor Mount Design (complete mechanical details)

I know we never used any of the other 7 for a fact.
Look forward to seeing you in the pit so we can show you our design!

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by Elgin Clock

http://www.technokats.org/documents/chairman.pdf

Wow. I feel as if I know the Technokats fairly well and this document absolutely astounded me. Wow. At Cyber Blue, we've been working to make ourselves a FIRST team not just a robotics team. It's wonderful to have a model FIRST team an hour or so north of us. The time I get to spend with your team planning and helping host the IRI every year is some of the best time I've ever had. You all are awesome and really do put the "I" in FIRST.

On a personal note: Where are you/have you entered your Chairman's?

Originally Posted by collin234

On a personal note: Where are you/have you entered your Chairman's?

Midwest

[Collin Fultz]

Originally Posted by D.J. Fluck

Midwest

*wishes technokat presenters best of luck in Chicago*

[miketwalker]

From what I've seen since I've been in the league... I agree with everybody on this thread, I think that everybody will support your gracious professionalism. I know at nationals last year I thought it was awesome the things in your pits alone... you had a demonstration of the evolution of the drive systems, and I know I checked that out and personally thought that was very cool. You can see that mirrored in many designs by teams. I am very glad you did post that on here, just so teams could make sure you didn't make a goof-up. Keep up the great work! Good luck to you guys at competition.