YMTC: Bluabot sits on Redabot

[jonathan lall]

Regarding the pinning rule, not only does it explicitly apply only to the carpet, but it is specifically designed to stop powerful robots from having too much of an advantage over weak ones (or else it would lead to some pretty defensive strategies). It's also a carry-over from old games and therefore it's reasonable to say it isn't designed to take hanging into account. FIRST has also said otherwise.

Originally Posted by Winged Globe

As the rules are written, Redabot cannot classify as hanging because it does not meet the second point (it *is* touching the platform). This renders the first point (directly supported by the horizontal bar) moot, because the definition of supported says the robot would not be hanging if the supporting object was removed, and Redabot never met the second point of hanging. Hence, Bluabot doesn't come into account. The supported clause is circular and a bit confusing, but touching the platform is clearly not allowed to be hanging.

Bluabot is hanging because it is not touching the ground, it would remain hanging with Redabot removed (not supported by Redabot), and it would not remain hanging (off the ground) with the horizontal bar removed.

Zing. That's the right reasoning according to the rules; the rules are very clear to give a structured and ordered approach to determining whether or not a robot is hanging. If those conditions are met, you can get into the "if this were removed" (ITWR) business.

Originally Posted by Winged Globe

I asked this very question at UTC New England. The ruling was that if the Bluabot was removed and the Redabot was hanging then Redabot scores. Aidan was the Head Ref.

I believe this is in error; clearly Bluabot is not supporting anything (quite the opposite in fact), and therefore ITWR does not apply. If you doubt, refer to the rules given in Winged Globe's post.

[Joe Ross]

Originally Posted by jonathan lall

Regarding the pinning rule, not only does it explicitly apply only to the carpet, but it is specifically designed to stop powerful robots from having too much of an advantage over weak ones (or else it would lead to some pretty defensive strategies). It's also a carry-over from old games and therefore it's reasonable to say it isn't designed to take hanging into account. FIRST has also said otherwise.

So it's ok to sit on top of a robot, or pin them against a stationary goal, or against the second level, or against the vertical bars, as long as you aren't on the carpet? What about grabbing them with your arm and lifting them off the carpet (assuming no damage done).

That certainly doesn't seem to be the intent of the rule.

[jonathan lall]

Are you asking me, or the people that wrote the rules? The carpet clause is explicit and not open to interpretation, but furthermore, I'd do it given the chance, and I can justify it in my own mind by saying I'm preventing that robot from reaching a specific goal, rather than parking in front of them in order to take them out of the game, which is the reason the rule exists in the first place. Stopping a robot from a specific target is still GP and is strategic; pinning them for the whole match is lame (though running down 10 seconds is certainly viable).

[Collin Fultz]

this (in a way) happened to us in Arizona. we went to hang against 190. our partner 696 was already on the bar. we needed the hang to win and stay #1 seed. 190 was up and as we went to pull up they put an arm into us and restricted our movement (up or down) (kind of pinning us) i'm not sure if it was ten seconds or less or more...but i didn't consider it pinning. luckily for us, when power was cut their motor-driven arm that was holding us lost it's power...but our nu-matic telescoping system was still trying to pressurize itself and we wound up hanging and winning. had we of not hung...i would have blamed ourself because we tried to hang in a bad spot. 190 would have had a good gameplan to keep us off the bar and would have been the better team because of this on-the-fly game plan.

anywho---i voted for no points for the bottom robot...however, if the bottom robot were removed and the top bot hung (it would be a ref's call) the top bot would get points for hanging.

[David Bridge]

It says right in the scenerio that if you remove either robot the other would be considered hanging, therefore they would both score points