Reputations. Do they deserve more careful thought?

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

I agree with you that everyone should strive for their fullest potential, and that lazyness is not something to be nurtured

but how many quiet, shy or disabled people are you willing to risk offending, or scaring off from posting here, buy creating the impression that CD is a hostile and uppidy place, just to rebuke the occassional sloppy poster?

do you do this in person? if someone is speaking to you do you stop and correct their grammer or syntax? or insist they do not use slang in your presence?

if Steven Hawkins called you on the phone, without his speech synthesizer, would you listen to him for a minute and they go "hey man, Nmm Mnnn Hmm gbym Nmmmm mum mum! I can understand a word your saying - announciate dude, AYE NUN SEE ATE!"

?! :^)

Im not trying to pick on you here, Im pushing for a kinder, gentler CD - where people can post their thoughts and ideas, without someone examining their english with a spell checker and syntax compiler. The gracious part of GP is to expect people will make mistakes from time to time, and to let them go without shining a spotlite on them.

Actually, it seems to me that the "quiet, shy or disabled people" are more likely to take their time and get their thoughts out in reasonably proper language. They also tend to improve in this ability with time. Ken Leung is a shining example of this. I used to get very frustrated trying to read his posts, until I realized that he was not a native speaker of english (then I gave him grace ). Now I have no trouble reading his posts, because his langauge and usage have improved, not because I became more accustomed to his style. If somebody is actually having trouble with the language, then that becomes obvious over time and we should ( and generally do) make allowances.

But it seems to me that the consensus of the members is that the language of this forum is standard american english, not IM speak. This has been discussed before in other threads. I have no problem with handing out a few negative rep points to people who obviously know better and are just being sloppy. Think of them as grammar corrections on a physics lab report. They are there to remind you to do better, but don't necessarily count against you in any real way either.

[KyleGilbert45]

This is my 2 cents about the system.. you can take it or leave it.....

Reputation (system)....Does it deserve this much thought at all?

While I believe this system had very good intentions at its inception, unfortunately I think its turning out to be more of a hassle than anyone wanted it to be. Even though I think the people at the top of the rep list really do belong there I fear that the system may be turning into more of a popularity contest. People shouldn’t base any opinion of the person based on how man green, grey, or red dots they have next to their name because this system isn’t perfect by any means. If anything, follow what LauraN and Brandon stated earlier. “The reputation system is just there to help you form your own opinions, not form them for you.”

I’m not sure what can be done to fix any errors with this system to make it more reputation based. Maybe a point reset with more strict rules and guidelines to giving out positive and negative points will fix the system? Maybe the system deserves a name change? Maybe we really don’t need the system at all? I’m not sure, but I don’t think that people shouldn’t be worrying this much about the Reputation System and how many colored dots they have next to their name.

[computhief263]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

But it seems to me that the consensus of the members is that the language of this forum is standard american english, not IM speak. This has been discussed before in other threads. I have no problem with handing out a few negative rep points to people who obviously know better and are just being sloppy. Think of them as grammar corrections on a physics lab report. They are there to remind you to do better, but don't necessarily count against you in any real way either.

Granted people's ideas are easily understood if in proper english, but is it really that big of a deal if someone types part of a reply "IM speak"? I mean what if someone was typeing a reply that they felt was important but was in some kind of rush, and unconciously used some IM speak. Replacing your with "ur" or people with "ppl". Or conciously in the sake of speed use some shortcuts like "w/" for with of "b/c" for because? Or accidentlly mispelled a few words they werent sure how to spell. Does that mean that they are being sloppy? You can still understand what they are saying, right? I mean if stuff like that frustrates you that much then just stop reading the post. Give them negative rep if u wish, but that doesnt mean that they wont make the mistake again.

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

if ur an intllgnt prsn u cn get the meaning fm vry crptc frms of comnction

rght?

Like he said, "no one likes a spelling and grammar nazi". Especially when the spelling/grammar mistake was just that... a MISTAKE.

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by computhief263

Like he said, "no one likes a spelling and grammar nazi". Especially when the spelling/grammar mistake was just that... a MISTAKE.

Mastikes heppan, I even make one or two a year . If it is just a mistake, then that will be evident from the rest of what that person has posted. Many times I personally won't even notice misspellings and other minor errors because my brain automatically "fixes" things to what it thinks it should be. Most of the time the only reason I even notice other's mistakes is my "autofix routine" produces something that doesn't make sense. So I have to look twice.

I am not concerned with mistakes nor do I jump on people for obvious mistyping or misspelling of uncommon words. I am concerned that standards of good english be upheld and that those who practice them be recognized in a positive way. I feel that it is especially important for those of us who are mentors to provide an example in this area. Though I can not recall any mentors who have a problem with this.

Maybe that is the best argument. Those of us who are professionals and trying to be examples to you all CHOOSE to communicate using standard english. We work to make our posts examples of clear thinking and understandable to all. If you are trying to be like us, to eventually do the jobs we do, shouldn't you be striving to do the same?

Writing well takes practice. But once you have learned to do it, it is actually harder to use slang, because you have to think about it. This is a great place to practice your writing skills, because there is no real penalty if you do not do it well. Yes, your "Reputation" might suffer for a little while. But what does that cost you? It is not like it goes on your transcript and stays there forever like failing an English class would.

On the other hand, if you only can type IM speak, because that is all you have practiced, what are the chances that your resume will be accepted at a large company? It might be good enough at "Joe's Computers" down the street, but it will not work at Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Rolls Royce, or NASA to name a prominent few.

If you do start to communicate well using a language we can all read, maybe your "Reputation" will grow too. Stranger things have happened.

By the way. Some of you may have noticed that the first two words of my response are misspelled. That was deliberate and intended for a humorous effect (and therefore not a mistake). If I habitually misspelled words or took other shortcuts, then the joke would not "work". I can take liberties and use them to effect because I know what is "supposed to be" and you know that I know because of my other writing, even within this post. If I wrote the rest of this post in IM speak and slang, then you would think I was just another ignoramus.

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Mastikes heppan, ...
.
.
.
By the way. Some of you may have noticed that the first two words of my response are misspelled. That was deliberate and intended for a humorous effect (and therefore not a mistake). If I habitually misspelled words or took other shortcuts, then the joke would not "work". I can take liberties and use them to effect because I know what is "supposed to be" and you know that I know because of my other writing, even within this post. If I wrote the rest of this post in IM speak and slang, then you would think I was just another ignoramus.

I'm sorry - I know this is one of those empty, 'space-wasting', possibly in-appropriate responses, but I just couldn't help myself ...

THAT was GREAT Chris ... pos. reps coming your way !!

[MissInformation]

I like the reputation system but I don't take it seriously. I think it's fun to see little comments people make about your post and I think it's a lot easier and quicker than sending a personal message.

And because I cannot pass by the whole discussion on grammar and spelling... I majored in English. I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I would never give someone negative points for such a thing, however, there are some posts I do not read because I don't want to sit there and figure out what was said. It's not just this site either; I'm like that on all the sites I visit.

Everyone makes mistakes. I know I've made them (heck, you can even look through some of the great Dave Lavery's posts and find some). And speaking of Dave, do you think he's gotten where he is on his engineering skills alone? On Math and Science alone? No, he uses his words as effectively (and affectively) as he uses the tools in his garage. Communication is very important and there are probably way too many intelligent people out there who are held back because they cannot communicate properly. English is not an easy subject for everyone, I understand this because I'm absolutely horrible with math (oh, I know the basics, one plus one equals three... er... two...) but if I gave as little attention to my Math skills as some people give to their English skills, I would find myself in serious trouble when it came to tax time. In other words, when I have to use math in my real life, I recognize my weakness and compensate with a calculator. Spell check is a wonderful thing (I know I'm running this post through it before I post it).

Okay, no more lecturing (for now). As far as the reputation system being flawed, I agree with Amanda 100%. Fair or unfair, it's life. As long as there is a system, there will be those who misuse it.

Heidi

<=========>
Spelled check suggested one ; for a , and a “that” for a “those” until I realized I had left out the “who”, then it accepted the “those".

[Ryan F.]

One thing that bothers me is when people give you reputation points without explaining why, or leaving any comments.

[Salik Syed]

Arrgghhh. can't edit my post .... (sorry for multi posting ) i tried to censor the names but I can't see the edit button, anyways one more thing... I really don't care about the reputation system I just think its stupid the way it is right now (and not cause i have a bad rep ... well now I do ....)

about the grammer issue:
ur and btw are pretty well known ... anyone on the internet can understand it, also most of us don't have time to write our post in word spell check, indent and do all that other good stuff, I get on Chiefdelphi in the morning before school and I try to get my questions answered or maybe help someone else out, I try to communicate the message best I can but just because you use a double negative or whatever doesn't matter...many people have more important things to do .

[MikeDubreuil]

Currently for my involvement in this thread I have received the following rep points:

Red: 2
Green: 1
Grey: 2

What does the grey rep point mean?

[KyleGilbert45]

Grey means the person that gave you rep doesn't have any points to give so they just basically gave you "0" points..... i think...

[GregT]

Main Entry: rep·u·ta·tion
Pronunciation: "re-py&-'tA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English reputacioun, from Latin reputation-, reputatio consideration, from reputare
1 a : overall quality or character as seen or judged by people in general b : recognition by other people of some characteristic or ability <has the reputation of being clever>
2 : a place in public esteem or regard : good name
- rep·u·ta·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective


I don't see "Green Dot" in there anywhere.

My fear is that this whole reputation thing has turned into more of a popularity contest then anything else. A person with lots of green dots next to their name is more likely to receive additional green dots. A person’s reputation should exist as respect by the general community for a person, not as a number associated with their name. I would like to see an option in the user cp to disable the reputation dots from appearing next to a person’s name.

In my opinion this forums has become a giant popularity contest. In the past few years I have realized that FIRST is, in many ways, very different from what I thought I had gotten involved with. I find this very disappointing.

I have received only one "red dot" and to earn it I had to brutally flame a fellow teammate (sorry Yan). I’m sure I’ll probably see a few more red dots from this response.

Greg

[Matt Adams]

My fear is that this whole reputation thing has turned into more of a popularity contest then anything else. A person with lots of green dots next to their name is more likely to receive additional green dots.

In my opinion this forums has become a giant popularity contest. In the past few years I have realized that FIRST is, in many ways, very different from what I thought I had gotten involved with. I find this very disappointing.

I've never been angry and shot from the hip on these forums... I guess there's a first time for everything.

Let's take a look at the top 5 people with the most reputation on these forums:

Andy Baker
JVN
Dave Lavery
Ken Leung
Joe Johnson

These guys have a lot of reputation points. You know why? Because these five individuals consistantly write concise, sincere, worthwhile, timely, and intelligent posts on a wide variety of topics, sharing a lot of mature insight, including some incredible technical knowledge. They've been around for a long while.

Are the popular? You bet! Why? Because they're honest, sincere people who try to better this online community. What's not to like? They have an immense amount of respect from the people on these boards because of their contributions.

Popularity in high school is a different thing than in real life, and is much different than among the gracious professionals in FIRST. These people are wildly "popular" because they're honest and fun people, not for the superficial reasons that people tend to be popular in high school.

I've heard people in this thread consistantly whine about how they've been around on CD and think they deserve more reputation dots then they have.

Here's the blunt truth:
If you don't have a ton of green dots by your name, you probably don't deserve them.

I feel really humbled that people take the time via leaving some reputation points to let me know that I posted something worthwhile. I'm not in some exclusive circle of five people who exchange reputation points on a nightly basis. As a matter of fact, of the last 24 reputation comments I've received, they've come from 21 different members.

To further the point that this system isn't some sort of exclusive club, I only came on these boards 4 months ago and have met no more than 6 or 7 people outside of my team who post regularly on these boards. I don't have nearly the well founded history that the vast majority of people with high reputation do.

At risk of sounding arrogant - I am a case in point example that anyone who takes the time to post worthwhile, informative posts can rise up among the ranks of the reputation system on these forums.

Are you really concerned about increase the overall respect and reputation that you convey on these forums, (in the form of green dots or otherwise)? Here's a hint: Speak clearing about worthwhile topics that will help other people.

If you're going to sit around in the chit chat forums all day (which is perfectly fine) talking about the weather or other random topics, don't expect people to flood your box with green dots about how much they appreciate knowing that you spotted a Segway on your favorate NBC sitcom.

This is how the system is. Deal with it, or offer worthwhile improvements.

Don't complain that FIRST isn't really all it's cracked up to be or accuse the people who have worked hard within this community and have a lot reputation points simply have them because they're "popular" among some nonexistant clique.

Let's move on,

Matt

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by Matt Adams

I've never been angry and shot from the hip on these forums... I guess there's a first time for everything.

Let's take a look at the top 5 people with the most reputation on these forums:

Andy Baker
JVN
Dave Lavery
Ken Leung
Joe Johnson

I feel really humbled that people take the time via leaving some reputation points to let me know that I posted something worthwhile.

Matt- I've seen your posts. Some of them look like they could be white papers. Your reputation is well deserved. The people you mentioned fall under the same category.

What I'm saying is, there's some people out there who get reputation or even spotlighted, when they clearly should not have been.

In some regards, remember the superlatives section of the high school yearbook? I think the reputation system is working like that, mostly a popularity contest among a clique.

[Madison]

I'm curious as to how anyone knows anything about why and from whom people beside themselves receive reputation -- and can thus ascribe reasons for such high reputation with any accuracy at all. You all just don't know why others distribute reputation points and I find it ridiculous that you can pretend to understand something completely outside the realm of your knowledge.

The people with the highest reputation are the people with the most power to affect reputation. A popularity contest amongst people with one or two green dots isn't going to significantly affect the overall reputation ratings people receive, as those at the top of the list are, seemingly, consistently receiving positive reputation at an equal rate. Thus, everything remains relative. You're not all genuinely suggesting that people like John, Matt, Amanda, or Andy are engaged in some sort of clique where they each distribute reputation only to one another? That's laughable; and I know that, not because they all have many green dots up there on top of their posts, but because I've been lucky enough to have the opportunity to meet or speak privately with many of the best people in FIRST.

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

What I'm saying is, there's some people out there who get reputation or even spotlighted, when they clearly should not have been.

I'd like to see some examples of people that are undeserving, in your opinion, of the reputation they've received and further examples defining why such reputation is inappropriate.

Also, who do you feel deserves to have higher reputation that has not already received such?

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

I'd like to see some examples of people that are undeserving, in your opinion, of the reputation they've received and further examples defining why such reputation is inappropriate.

I'm not about to make this into a witch hunt.

EDIT: I think some excellent suggestions have made made for the reputation system. I look forward to seeing them put into place.