Reputations. Do they deserve more careful thought?

[ChrisH]

Originally Posted by computhief263

Like he said, "no one likes a spelling and grammar nazi". Especially when the spelling/grammar mistake was just that... a MISTAKE.

Mastikes heppan, I even make one or two a year . If it is just a mistake, then that will be evident from the rest of what that person has posted. Many times I personally won't even notice misspellings and other minor errors because my brain automatically "fixes" things to what it thinks it should be. Most of the time the only reason I even notice other's mistakes is my "autofix routine" produces something that doesn't make sense. So I have to look twice.

I am not concerned with mistakes nor do I jump on people for obvious mistyping or misspelling of uncommon words. I am concerned that standards of good english be upheld and that those who practice them be recognized in a positive way. I feel that it is especially important for those of us who are mentors to provide an example in this area. Though I can not recall any mentors who have a problem with this.

Maybe that is the best argument. Those of us who are professionals and trying to be examples to you all CHOOSE to communicate using standard english. We work to make our posts examples of clear thinking and understandable to all. If you are trying to be like us, to eventually do the jobs we do, shouldn't you be striving to do the same?

Writing well takes practice. But once you have learned to do it, it is actually harder to use slang, because you have to think about it. This is a great place to practice your writing skills, because there is no real penalty if you do not do it well. Yes, your "Reputation" might suffer for a little while. But what does that cost you? It is not like it goes on your transcript and stays there forever like failing an English class would.

On the other hand, if you only can type IM speak, because that is all you have practiced, what are the chances that your resume will be accepted at a large company? It might be good enough at "Joe's Computers" down the street, but it will not work at Raytheon, Northrop Grumman, Rolls Royce, or NASA to name a prominent few.

If you do start to communicate well using a language we can all read, maybe your "Reputation" will grow too. Stranger things have happened.

By the way. Some of you may have noticed that the first two words of my response are misspelled. That was deliberate and intended for a humorous effect (and therefore not a mistake). If I habitually misspelled words or took other shortcuts, then the joke would not "work". I can take liberties and use them to effect because I know what is "supposed to be" and you know that I know because of my other writing, even within this post. If I wrote the rest of this post in IM speak and slang, then you would think I was just another ignoramus.

[Stu Bloom]

Originally Posted by ChrisH

Mastikes heppan, ...
.
.
.
By the way. Some of you may have noticed that the first two words of my response are misspelled. That was deliberate and intended for a humorous effect (and therefore not a mistake). If I habitually misspelled words or took other shortcuts, then the joke would not "work". I can take liberties and use them to effect because I know what is "supposed to be" and you know that I know because of my other writing, even within this post. If I wrote the rest of this post in IM speak and slang, then you would think I was just another ignoramus.

I'm sorry - I know this is one of those empty, 'space-wasting', possibly in-appropriate responses, but I just couldn't help myself ...

THAT was GREAT Chris ... pos. reps coming your way !!

[MissInformation]

I like the reputation system but I don't take it seriously. I think it's fun to see little comments people make about your post and I think it's a lot easier and quicker than sending a personal message.

And because I cannot pass by the whole discussion on grammar and spelling... I majored in English. I am not a Grammar Nazi, and I would never give someone negative points for such a thing, however, there are some posts I do not read because I don't want to sit there and figure out what was said. It's not just this site either; I'm like that on all the sites I visit.

Everyone makes mistakes. I know I've made them (heck, you can even look through some of the great Dave Lavery's posts and find some). And speaking of Dave, do you think he's gotten where he is on his engineering skills alone? On Math and Science alone? No, he uses his words as effectively (and affectively) as he uses the tools in his garage. Communication is very important and there are probably way too many intelligent people out there who are held back because they cannot communicate properly. English is not an easy subject for everyone, I understand this because I'm absolutely horrible with math (oh, I know the basics, one plus one equals three... er... two...) but if I gave as little attention to my Math skills as some people give to their English skills, I would find myself in serious trouble when it came to tax time. In other words, when I have to use math in my real life, I recognize my weakness and compensate with a calculator. Spell check is a wonderful thing (I know I'm running this post through it before I post it).

Okay, no more lecturing (for now). As far as the reputation system being flawed, I agree with Amanda 100%. Fair or unfair, it's life. As long as there is a system, there will be those who misuse it.

Heidi

<=========>
Spelled check suggested one ; for a , and a “that” for a “those” until I realized I had left out the “who”, then it accepted the “those".

[Ryan F.]

One thing that bothers me is when people give you reputation points without explaining why, or leaving any comments.

[Salik Syed]

Arrgghhh. can't edit my post .... (sorry for multi posting ) i tried to censor the names but I can't see the edit button, anyways one more thing... I really don't care about the reputation system I just think its stupid the way it is right now (and not cause i have a bad rep ... well now I do ....)

about the grammer issue:
ur and btw are pretty well known ... anyone on the internet can understand it, also most of us don't have time to write our post in word spell check, indent and do all that other good stuff, I get on Chiefdelphi in the morning before school and I try to get my questions answered or maybe help someone else out, I try to communicate the message best I can but just because you use a double negative or whatever doesn't matter...many people have more important things to do .

[MikeDubreuil]

Currently for my involvement in this thread I have received the following rep points:

Red: 2
Green: 1
Grey: 2

What does the grey rep point mean?

[KyleGilbert45]

Grey means the person that gave you rep doesn't have any points to give so they just basically gave you "0" points..... i think...

[GregT]

Main Entry: rep·u·ta·tion
Pronunciation: "re-py&-'tA-sh&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English reputacioun, from Latin reputation-, reputatio consideration, from reputare
1 a : overall quality or character as seen or judged by people in general b : recognition by other people of some characteristic or ability <has the reputation of being clever>
2 : a place in public esteem or regard : good name
- rep·u·ta·tion·al /-shn&l, -sh&-n&l/ adjective


I don't see "Green Dot" in there anywhere.

My fear is that this whole reputation thing has turned into more of a popularity contest then anything else. A person with lots of green dots next to their name is more likely to receive additional green dots. A person’s reputation should exist as respect by the general community for a person, not as a number associated with their name. I would like to see an option in the user cp to disable the reputation dots from appearing next to a person’s name.

In my opinion this forums has become a giant popularity contest. In the past few years I have realized that FIRST is, in many ways, very different from what I thought I had gotten involved with. I find this very disappointing.

I have received only one "red dot" and to earn it I had to brutally flame a fellow teammate (sorry Yan). I’m sure I’ll probably see a few more red dots from this response.

Greg

[Matt Adams]

My fear is that this whole reputation thing has turned into more of a popularity contest then anything else. A person with lots of green dots next to their name is more likely to receive additional green dots.

In my opinion this forums has become a giant popularity contest. In the past few years I have realized that FIRST is, in many ways, very different from what I thought I had gotten involved with. I find this very disappointing.

I've never been angry and shot from the hip on these forums... I guess there's a first time for everything.

Let's take a look at the top 5 people with the most reputation on these forums:

Andy Baker
JVN
Dave Lavery
Ken Leung
Joe Johnson

These guys have a lot of reputation points. You know why? Because these five individuals consistantly write concise, sincere, worthwhile, timely, and intelligent posts on a wide variety of topics, sharing a lot of mature insight, including some incredible technical knowledge. They've been around for a long while.

Are the popular? You bet! Why? Because they're honest, sincere people who try to better this online community. What's not to like? They have an immense amount of respect from the people on these boards because of their contributions.

Popularity in high school is a different thing than in real life, and is much different than among the gracious professionals in FIRST. These people are wildly "popular" because they're honest and fun people, not for the superficial reasons that people tend to be popular in high school.

I've heard people in this thread consistantly whine about how they've been around on CD and think they deserve more reputation dots then they have.

Here's the blunt truth:
If you don't have a ton of green dots by your name, you probably don't deserve them.

I feel really humbled that people take the time via leaving some reputation points to let me know that I posted something worthwhile. I'm not in some exclusive circle of five people who exchange reputation points on a nightly basis. As a matter of fact, of the last 24 reputation comments I've received, they've come from 21 different members.

To further the point that this system isn't some sort of exclusive club, I only came on these boards 4 months ago and have met no more than 6 or 7 people outside of my team who post regularly on these boards. I don't have nearly the well founded history that the vast majority of people with high reputation do.

At risk of sounding arrogant - I am a case in point example that anyone who takes the time to post worthwhile, informative posts can rise up among the ranks of the reputation system on these forums.

Are you really concerned about increase the overall respect and reputation that you convey on these forums, (in the form of green dots or otherwise)? Here's a hint: Speak clearing about worthwhile topics that will help other people.

If you're going to sit around in the chit chat forums all day (which is perfectly fine) talking about the weather or other random topics, don't expect people to flood your box with green dots about how much they appreciate knowing that you spotted a Segway on your favorate NBC sitcom.

This is how the system is. Deal with it, or offer worthwhile improvements.

Don't complain that FIRST isn't really all it's cracked up to be or accuse the people who have worked hard within this community and have a lot reputation points simply have them because they're "popular" among some nonexistant clique.

Let's move on,

Matt

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by Matt Adams

I've never been angry and shot from the hip on these forums... I guess there's a first time for everything.

Let's take a look at the top 5 people with the most reputation on these forums:

Andy Baker
JVN
Dave Lavery
Ken Leung
Joe Johnson

I feel really humbled that people take the time via leaving some reputation points to let me know that I posted something worthwhile.

Matt- I've seen your posts. Some of them look like they could be white papers. Your reputation is well deserved. The people you mentioned fall under the same category.

What I'm saying is, there's some people out there who get reputation or even spotlighted, when they clearly should not have been.

In some regards, remember the superlatives section of the high school yearbook? I think the reputation system is working like that, mostly a popularity contest among a clique.

[Madison]

I'm curious as to how anyone knows anything about why and from whom people beside themselves receive reputation -- and can thus ascribe reasons for such high reputation with any accuracy at all. You all just don't know why others distribute reputation points and I find it ridiculous that you can pretend to understand something completely outside the realm of your knowledge.

The people with the highest reputation are the people with the most power to affect reputation. A popularity contest amongst people with one or two green dots isn't going to significantly affect the overall reputation ratings people receive, as those at the top of the list are, seemingly, consistently receiving positive reputation at an equal rate. Thus, everything remains relative. You're not all genuinely suggesting that people like John, Matt, Amanda, or Andy are engaged in some sort of clique where they each distribute reputation only to one another? That's laughable; and I know that, not because they all have many green dots up there on top of their posts, but because I've been lucky enough to have the opportunity to meet or speak privately with many of the best people in FIRST.

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

What I'm saying is, there's some people out there who get reputation or even spotlighted, when they clearly should not have been.

I'd like to see some examples of people that are undeserving, in your opinion, of the reputation they've received and further examples defining why such reputation is inappropriate.

Also, who do you feel deserves to have higher reputation that has not already received such?

[MikeDubreuil]

Originally Posted by M. Krass

I'd like to see some examples of people that are undeserving, in your opinion, of the reputation they've received and further examples defining why such reputation is inappropriate.

I'm not about to make this into a witch hunt.

EDIT: I think some excellent suggestions have made made for the reputation system. I look forward to seeing them put into place.

[LauraN]

Let me just talk about myself a little bit before I start this post. But I assure you, it's to make a point.

I know for a fact that there is going to be at least one person who is not going to be happy with what I have to say. I can make similar statements about a lot of things. But given the potentially controversial nature of this thread, this is even more true than usual.

I am fully expecting to receive negative rep for this post. But I'm writing it anyway, because I have something to say. And you should take the same attitude. </egotism>

Originally Posted by GregT

A person with lots of green dots next to their name is more likely to receive additional green dots.

I disagree. I honestly think the exact opposite is true- people with higher reputations are less likely to receive more reputation. Someone once said (I believe it was in an older post about reputation) that they'd be less likely to give rep to those with a long line of pretty green dots. Why not give it to the new guy with only one dot? And, if that person already has so much rep, then they need to really go above and beyond to get more, because you expect more from them. I'm also sure some people are intimidated by it. I might feel kind of silly giving rep to someone so much more "elite" than me. Do they really care what I think about their posts? (I'm sure they do, I'm just saying it's possible for that thought to cross your mind.) I'm not saying these ways of giving rep are the "right" way to do things (I don't think there is a "right" way to give rep), but they are things that cross people's minds. Also, as M. Krass said, I find it highly unlikely that there's some conspiracy run by John, Andy, Ken and Co to keep themselves at the top of the list.

Let's look at some examples. =)

Originally Posted by JVN

I have a negative rep-stalker... someone who I know has a personal grudge against me. It's actually kind of humorous to get -3 from them for a post, and then +20 from another person for the same post. Makes me smile.

Originally Posted by Matt Adams

I feel really humbled that people take the time via leaving some reputation points to let me know that I posted something worthwhile. I'm not in some exclusive circle of five people who exchange reputation points on a nightly basis. As a matter of fact, of the last 24 reputation comments I've received, they've come from 21 different members.

To further the point that this system isn't some sort of exclusive club, I only came on these boards 4 months ago and have met no more than 6 or 7 people outside of my team who post regularly on these boards. I don't have nearly the well founded history that the vast majority of people with high reputation do.

To add my own personal perspective: I'm almost a hybrid of John and Matt. (Tell me that's not cool). Like Matt, I haven't been around awhile. (A little over a month). Also like Matt, I don't know many CD users in "real life." (I think the count stands at about 1.) Like John, I feel that there's abuse of the reputation system from personal experience. But my reputation isn't suffering. Because, like Matt, I've gotten positive reputation from 4 or 5 different CD users (key word: different). And a lot of them are pretty high up there in terms of reputation. So the idea that they're only giving rep to each other is disproven.

I'm not telling you this to make anyone mad, or to brag about my reputation, or anything like that. I don't like making people mad and I don't necessarily think my rep is much to brag about. But I'm telling you this to give you another perspective. John's been around for a few years. Matt for a few months. I've been around for a month. And in each case, the reputation system seems to be working just fine.

The bottom line: The reputation system is a system designed to allow people to be encouraged and constructively criticized by their peers. No good deed goes unpunished; all democracies are corrupt. There will always be someone ready and willing to abuse the system, but these "someone"s represent a small enough portion of the population that they don't matter. As shown by the examples listed above, the good balances out the bad. John has an insane amount of reputation, despite the fact that someone is abusing the system against him. Matt also has lots of reputation, without the "advantage" of knowing the "elite" personally.

Why is that? It's because, regardless of whether there's someone giving negative rep to those they don't like or positive to those they do, John and Matt are smart guys who write great posts. And the majority of the CD community is intelligent enough to recognize that and responsible enough to reward them for it properly. If this weren't the case, if the majority of users were abusing the system, they would not have the kind of reputation they do. And I don't think there are many people who would argue that these 2 don't deserve the rep they have.

So take it all with a grain of salt, form your own opinions, lead by example, act responsibly, be graciously professional, and everything will be ok.

And that's true for anything, not just a silly system based on virtual green dots.

[Figment]

I think the reputation system works pretty well, I've been around for a while and read the forums for 4 years, but never got around to actually signing up and replying till now. There are always a few problems with any system but I think this one works as good as any other. Chief Delphi has done a good job of creating a great community and a place for us all to share thoughts and ideas and also some other things that can't quite be considered a full thought. I'll stick with it at least through college even if I'm not on a team anymore, despite the reputation system or anything else that might have some minor flaws.

[Matt Adams]

Originally Posted by MikeDubreuil

In some regards, remember the superlatives section of the high school yearbook? I think the reputation system is working like that, mostly a popularity contest among a clique.

Mike, I'm not shooting for any sort of personal attack here... I'd just suggest that you reread my post which you actually quoted.

In short, you and the handful of other people that suggested the reputation system is a popularity contest don't have any proof. It's making you (and those who have shared this opinion) sound like whiners. I'd suggest you try to save some face and quit this unfounded arguement which has ruffled the feathers of a lot of dedicated and passionate people.

The reputation system is not a clique, unless you consider the "clique" to be the 50 or 75 most active members here on CD. That doesn't sound like a clique to me, it sounds like like an online community.

Some don't believe that the people who are among the top of the reputation rankings deserve to be there. I'll even agree with you, there's a lot of people that I'd place higher on the list. That's fair, we're all entitled to our opinion. However, the community has spoken; the reputation system is a democratic process. Not everyone will agree all the time. And that's okay.

This isn't a battle between the haves and the have nots unless you make it one. If you see someone that you think should be higher in the reputation rankings, (and this bothers you so much you can't sleep at night), find their posts and give them positive reputation.

Unless, of course, that person is you... in which case you should perhaps use this as a good lesson in humility. True respect and admiration from your peers is something that must be earned, not something that we can demand.

Matt