Buckeye Regional: How would you judge?

[Wayne Doenges]

There were a couple of examples of what I perceived as Un-Gracious Professionalism. If I am wrong, than please forgive me.
The first example I witnessed, the other one, one of our mentors witnessed.
I will not name names or team numbers.

B) A team unpacked there robot and than took parts out of their toolbox and started exchanging them for the ones on the bot.

C) A team took their recently unpacked robot, took it outside and exchanged it for the one inside their support vehicle.

How would you rule?

If I am all wet, than I humbly appologize. If not, you may want to rethink your strategy.

Wayne Doenges

[Elgin Clock]

B) If it was fabricated parts they used then it is NOT ok in my book, If it was stock parts, like a new motor to replace a damaged one then I think that is ok. (I think)

C) That is just totally wrong/stupid/Gracially Unprofessional and they need a reality check! What Audacity!

[Kris Verdeyen]

If the team in your first scenario had been to another regional, they are allowed to replace parts made in the post-regional 3 day build period. Also, if the parts were made during the six week build season, but not shipped for one reason or another, I have no problem with that.

Second scenario - replacing an entire robot? My gut instinct is that there's a missing piece or two of information here. I find it difficult to believe that a team would do that.

[Jim Meyer]

Message 864 from FRCtech2002:

In previous years some teams have built two identical robots during the six week build period. One for the competition, and one for practice before and after their events. Is keeping a second robot solely for practice purposes legal?

A) Yes that would be legal, be sure to ship the operator interface for this year's robot with the robot.

If keeping a practice robot is legal, then it could very easily be used to replace broken components on the competition robot. Is this legal?

A) You may use any parts from this robot for spares as long as they were built within the 6 week build and design period or within a couple of days after each event your team competes in.


According to the above ruling it is fine to use spares that were not shipped with the robot as long as they were built during the 6 week build and design period.

This ruling also appears to permit using a complete robot as a collection of "spares" if it was built during the 6 weeks, but I think FIRST has specifically outlwed this, at least they have in the past. If a team has done this, I think this clearly is not in the spirit of the competition.

tink... tink... (my 2 cents)

[asher]

Call me if I'm wrong but I don't think its in the spirit of FIRST to just bring up all theses "ungraciously unprofessional" issues. Sure teams do thinks "wrong" in your eyes, but I'm sure there's something you do that they feel is equally "wrong." If you had an issue with this then you should have just asked the team at the time or if you didn't want to get involved just drop the issue. I seriously doubt that you could find a team that has done every single thing exactly by the book for their entire existence, but yes we all try to do it by the book, things just happen. So in my eyes making a post like this is "ungraciously unprofessional" in it self. Its just like 6th grade girls gossiping in the school hallway and I feel it has no place in FIRST.

Bottom line - If you feel that something like this is happening is just too horribly "wrong" then just politely ask the team about it, maybe you would be surprised by the reason, or find out what you thought you saw was completely misinterpreted.

asher

[Matt Reiland]

We have a bunch of extra parts we couldn't ship because of weight of the crate (~750lbs), many are already smashed and dinged from practicing with them during the 6 weeks (we were driving at week 2). All were replaced before shipping so the robot would be in full operating condition out of the box, however we will be bringing in these spare parts, I feel they are legal and have no problem doing so. If we made them yesterday it would be cheating. As to the specific teams you are talking about I only know of a few that bring full support vehicles to the competition usually with a second robot and I trust every one of them. So if it was built at the same time (we found it very useful to build at least 2 of everything while the setups were on the machines, setting up to mill usually takes more time than ripping out parts especially on CNC) all of the spare parts are legal. I guess I wouldn't get too upset without knowing for sure that the parts or whole spare robot are truely violating the rules.

[Warren Boudreau]

As long as the parts were manufactured during the 6-week period or the three days between regionals, then everything is on the up and up.

We are, therefore, faced with a dilema. Do we trust that the teams are being completely aboveboard with their replacement of parts or do we assume that they are cheating.

Personally, I take the spirit of the rules on manufacturing very seriously. It's one of the most important lessons to learn. I choose to assume that all of the other teams take these rules just as seriously, and would never dream of cheating.

Therefore, I would trust that the teams in question are being completely aboveboard with the replacement of parts. And if not, the students on the team are the ones being cheated.