Late as it is for strategy, I was thinking.

[Billfred]

Goaltending, according to FIRST, is blocking the downward trajectory of a small ball.

Is there anything stopping a team from blocking the upward trajectory of a small ball? It ain't pretty, but it'd be highly effective at stopping good HPs.

[KenWittlief]

yes, your bot cant extend over the human player station

[Specialagentjim]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

yes, your bot cant extend over the human player station

But doesnt that sort of move past the "intent" of having a boundary. Not to mention the safety issue of having a robot extend past the lexan barrior?...why bother having a lexan barrior if robots can go over it?

Maybe im looking at this wrong, you all tell me.

[KenWittlief]

thats what i said

Q: is anything stopping you from bocking the ball on the upward path?
A: yes, you CANT... extend over the wall...

[jonathan lall]

Robots can't cross the plane. Conceivably they could tower over everything though and prevent shots from being made. Conceivably I could also arc a shot that came down right on top of it as well. But as is often the case with goaltending, it all comes back to the issue of gracious professionalism.

[Kevin Sevcik]

A small point. Most shooting techniques I've seen involve a ball that is headed upwards well past the lexan barrier. Thus, I'd think you could block shots right at the lexan barrier. however, you'd have to do so with blocking your opponents vision, as that's illegal.

EDIT: I think it's physically impossible, or atleast very very difficult to shoot a ball at the stationary goal and have it arcing down at the barrier, and STILL have a reasonable chance of going in. That being the key point. Goaltending can't be called on balls that patently aren't going into the goal. Else, you could just hit robots with balls anywhere on the field to score points.

[Ryan F.]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

A: yes, you CANT... extend over the wall...

I think that the refs need to be aware of this. In about every match at the MWR you could always see a team in some way breaking the plane of the field. No penalties were ever given for this.

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by rforystek

I think that the refs need to be aware of this. In about every match at the MWR you could always see a team in some way breaking the plane of the field. No penalties were ever given for this.

Actually Ken, there is no rule that states you cannot break the top of the vertical player station wall. The rule you may be thinking of addresses only the ball corral. (G28)
Therefore, if/when it happened at MWR, it should not have been penalized.

However, there is always the safety rule, and if something is deemed a safety hazard they will do something about it. But, in general, it's not illegal.
If you've got an arm or something dangling down over the wall trying to block the HP, that could be considered a safety hazard, but if you're a robot with a 2x ball in your arm, that happens to cross the top of the wall, it's ok.
If you've seen some of the HPs out there, it'd probably be a waste of time to try blocking them, and totally blocking their view with a blanket or something is illegal, due to being un-GP.

[Specialagentjim]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

thats what i said

Q: is anything stopping you from bocking the ball on the upward path?
A: yes, you CANT... extend over the wall...

Incredibly sorry. It's late and im taking a break from a 10 page paper due before I leave for atlanta.

Originally Posted by rforystek

I think that the refs need to be aware of this. In about every match at the MWR you could always see a team in some way breaking the plane of the field. No penalties were ever given for this.

I believe its acceptable to break every plane of the field EXCEPT the ball corral, which is a little insane. 108's personally almost taken out a ref.

...Twice

[10intheCrunch]

I believe that team 45 was penalized several times at the Midwest regional for crossing over the top of the plane with a ball in hand--It didn't seem as if they were going into the corral from what I saw. Take a look at the video (posted at SOAP still?) if you can and make your own call.

If 45 had gotten up in the face of some other team, it would be pretty darned hard to shoot over that monstrous arm holding a ball. Of course, they didn't really need to, being such an offensive powerhouse...

[KenWittlief]

Originally Posted by AmyPrib

Actually Ken, there is no rule that states you cannot break the top of the vertical player station wall. The rule you may be thinking of addresses only the ball corral. (G28)
Therefore, if/when it happened at MWR, it should not have been penalized.

However, there is always the safety rule, and if something is deemed a safety hazard they will do something about it. But, in general, it's not illegal.
If you've got an arm or something dangling down over the wall trying to block the HP, that could be considered a safety hazard, but if you're a robot with a 2x ball in your arm, that happens to cross the top of the wall, it's ok.
If you've seen some of the HPs out there, it'd probably be a waste of time to try blocking them, and totally blocking their view with a blanket or something is illegal, due to being un-GP.

yes, this one:

<G06> A ROBOT will be disabled if the ROBOT operation is deemed unsafe.

so by extending your bot over the very expensive protective barrier that FIRST has provided for 'some apparent reason' you risk your bot being disabled

and 'deemed unsafe' is in the eyes of the ref - wanna play that game on the field? No reasonable person would think its ok for your bot to reach over the 'protective barrier' and say we are not doing anything unsafe.

[Bcahn836]

It is possible, my robot has an arm that extends upward about 7 feet, and "wings" that spread about 4 feet. We would never do this but it is possible to block the human player. but if the human player throws a ball and hits us who gets the penelty? without going over the lexan wall.

[KenWittlief]

7 feet would only be about as high as the shield, but even if a bot could hold something up 9 or 10 feet high, in that case I would toss the balls to the other human player, or step to one side - I cant imagine blocking the HP being an effective defense.

in fact, if your bot is holding something up that high, I can see the HP going into dodgeball mode and nailing your bot with a ball as hard as possible - either the thing its holding will be knocked loose (2X ball?) or your bot will be knocked over by the impact - 9 feet is a lot of leverage!

[AmyPrib]

Originally Posted by KenWittlief

7 feet would only be about as high as the shield, but even if a bot could hold something up 9 or 10 feet high, in that case I would toss the balls to the other human player, or step to one side - I cant imagine blocking the HP being an effective defense.

and 'deemed unsafe' is in the eyes of the ref - wanna play that game on the field? No reasonable person would think its ok for your bot to reach over the 'protective barrier' and say we are not doing anything unsafe.

Well, yes there is the possibility of being disabled if you're obviously being unsafe by reaching over the 7' wall. We were "penalized", not disabled, twice for this, but shouldn't have been. Actually, someone else watching the video thought we were pushed anyways, but oh well... I think the point is that inadvertant or slight plane breakage with a 2x or your robot arm up that high is not a penalty. Reaching over and hanging a ball or arm over a hp's head to block him would probably be a safety hazard.

I agree, blocking the HP that way wouldn't be a very effective defense, mainly because it's not too hard to shoot over or around it.

Originally Posted by bcahn836

but if the human player throws a ball and hits us who gets the penelty? without going over the lexan wall.

I don't think there is a penalty solely for throwing a ball and hitting a robot.

[Ryan F.]

Sorry that I was wrong here. I guess I've held that misconception the entire time. Though, I do think it's very unreasonable that robots can break the plane of the field. I watched many at my regional swinging arms etc. many feet outside the field, and thought about what would happen if they hit someone. I even witnessed a robot holding a ball right over the hp area. Personally, I believe that a rule should be made about this, if you can't break the plane with your wheels, why should you with other parts of the robot?