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Unread 21-04-2004, 22:52
ngreen ngreen is offline
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Re: Brainstorm: Aggressive play rule

<G35> If a team exercises the the use of overly aggressive play as defined in <G32>, the ref, at his or her discretion, may present the offending team with a yellow card. It the offending team continues or the ref determine the action requires a disqualification the ref may then present a red card. A red card will disqualify the offending robot for the match. A yellow card issued in one match will carry over to that team's next match. A team receiving two yellow cards in two consective match will result in a red card and the disqualification for that match. Any team receiving two red cards during the tournament will be disqualified from completing in the tournament.

Here is my official view for a rule using the card system. I tried to work out the ruling to the best of my ability. If you see a word that may be easily manipulated or phrasing that is confusing please let me know and I will look over it some more. I left a couple phrases off that I used in my first version of the rule to save as much space as possible. If you look at the moderated G34 G35 thread you can see my original phrasing. Give me any thoughts how to make it better. Remember this is only about how to better implement rule G32. If you have issues with the wording of G32 take that up somewhere else.

[Edit Thanks dave. I took it as this. I'm am merely offering my suggestions additions to the rules for any off-season competition based off the 2004 FIRST game. Any consideration for future game is not an issue but these are meant for the 2004 game only and consideration for 2005 game if the game has a similiar interaction level. That's all.[edit]

Last edited by ngreen : 21-04-2004 at 23:19.
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Unread 22-04-2004, 07:34
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Joel Glidden Joel Glidden is offline
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Re: Brainstorm: Aggressive play rule

<G101> See rules G27, G30, and G32.
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Unread 22-04-2004, 13:37
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Re: [moderated] Brainstorm: Aggressive play rule

I know some of you will be saying...ok, that doesn't help at all but...

<G101> Any strategy that is viewed by the referees as malicious or intended to destroy, tip, or disable another robot will be subject to disablement or disqualification. Any mechanism on a robot that has been viewed as causing destruction in a regular basis may be asked to be removed or altered to fit the referee's liking.

Basically...its kinda the same rule as what we currently are looking at in FIRST. I dont think FIRST is becomming Battlebots, and I dont think we need to go overboard to make this a "passive" game. Defense is fun, it adds variation in strategy, and it helps teams who may have robots that can drive, but not do much else, evening up the field a little bit. If you take away defense, the offensive powerhouses of FIRST will start to run away with trophies year after year.

Andy Grady
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Unread 22-04-2004, 17:28
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Re: [moderated] Brainstorm: Aggressive play rule

(I'm borrowing from others, of course)
<G101>
If a robot is rendered inoperable by another robot, whether intentionally or not, the referee shall display a red card to the offending team. That robot is then disabled for 15 seconds. Inoperablility of a robot is defined as anything that prevents the robot from continuing to compete for the remainder of the match.

If any component of a robot is rendered inoperable by another robot, whether intentionally or not, the referee shall display a yellow card to the offending team. That robot is then disabled for 10 seconds. Inoperability of a component is defined as anything that prevents the use (functionality) of any rigid (non-pliable) component for the remainder of the match.

If a robot displays behavior that the observing referee deems as overly "agressive", then the referee shall display a black card to the offending team. That robot is then disabled for 5 seconds.

If a team receives three black cards, then that robot is disabled for the remainder of the match.
If a team receives two yellow cards, then that robot is disabled for the remainder of the match.
If a team receives two red cards, then that robot is disabled for the remainder of the match.
If a team receives any combination of red, yellow, and/or black cards, then that robot is disabled for the remainder of the match.

After the match, any team that received a yellow and/or red card must be reinspected by a knowledgeable inspector. The team must comply with all appropriate requests from the inspector, or that team will be forbidden from further participation in the elimination rounds.

If a robot must be reinspected 3 or more times, then that robot is forbidden from further participation in the elimination rounds.

In the event that a robot is forbidden from further participation in the elimination rounds, the remaining teams of the alliance may pick a new third partner. However, the new partner may only play up to (but no more than) 3 matches.

OK, the comments:
The card system seems to be a pretty popular idea, so let's run with it. A serious offense results in a serious disablement period, or 1/8 of the match. A medium offense results in a medium disablement period, or 1/12 of the match. A minor offense results in a minor disablement period, or 1/24 of the match.

Robots that show an "aptitude" for trouble need to be reinspected. That makes sense.

I think it also makes sense for a shafted alliance to pick a new partner, but limitations must be placed on the new partner, since they would be entering the elimination rounds half way through.

OK, thanks for reading!

MrToast

[EDIT]4-23-04: Fixed a spelling mistake, clarified new partner choosing, and defined inoperability [/EDIT]
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Last edited by MrToast : 23-04-2004 at 08:02.
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Unread 23-04-2004, 13:03
Andrew Andrew is offline
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Re: [moderated] Brainstorm: Aggressive play rule

G101 Overly Aggressive Play Overly aggressive play is defined as ungracious and unfair play designed to damage or disable an opponent's robot outside the scope of the rules.

1. Deliberate Tipping
2. Excessive Pinning (see pinning)
3. Grabbing and Holding (see entanglement)
4. Deliberate Entanglement (see entanglement)
5. Late Hits

G101a Deliberate Tipping
Deliberate tipping occurs when a robot extends a surface below an "upright" robot and raises that surface until the second robot assumes a "non-upright" position. "Upright" is defined as the condition in which the primary drive mechanism is in contact with the playing field surface such that controlled robot mobility is enabled. "Non-upright" is the negation of "Upright."

A 50 point penalty will be assessed against the tipping robot for each occurrence.

G101b Late Hits
A late hit occurs when a robot makes contact with another robot which has been immobilized or disabled. Examples of immobilization include being caught on the playing field border, being pinned by another robot, having a drive system or software malfunction which prevents mobility, being disabled by the referees for another offence.

The first late hit in a match will be penalized by a 20 point penalty. The second late hit will result in disabling of the offending robot.

G101c Last Resort due to Excessive Damage
A team which feels that it has been damaged due to overly aggressive play in a match may issue a written complaint immediately after the match. [Note: a specific form and very specific guidelines for complaints would be established.] The complaintant robot will be inspected for damage immediately. The team against whom the complaint is registered will be interviewed to determine their intent. The head referee in consultation with the other field referees will make a judgement to uphold or deny the complaint.

The team which registers the complaint will have a pink dot attached to its on field badges (regardless of the determination of the complaint).

If the complaint is upheld, the offending team will have a penalty dot attached to its on field badges. The first offense will have a yellow dot, the second offense a red dot, and the final offense a black dot. A "black-dotted" team will not be allowed to compete further in the competition.

Analysis
Most of the problems with "overly aggressive play" are cumulative and perceptional. If a team feels that they have been "wronged," they need a formal mechanism to resolve this. If a team is serious enough about a complaint to write it down, then some form of resolution needs to be undertaken. In some cases, they just need their complaint to be heard. In others, a real correction to the offending team needs to be applied. It is worth the stoppage in play to resolve the dispute to the satisfaction of all parties, rather than to continue to have bad feelings build up.

The pink dot is designed to keep teams from "excessively complaining." If you have five pink dots on your badges, you are not going to be taken seriously.

The yellow, red, black dots follow the "carding" system already proposed. Mechanistically, it provides a visual badge to the world that this team has had complaints against it upheld. The referees, alliance partners, and opponents will know what they're dealing with before they get into the match.

The reason for a written complaint system is that FIRST is not going to want to disqualify someone from competing in a tournament that they paid for without consistent written documentation. Since the referrees are generally volunteers and generally drawn from teams, a legal argument could be made by a disqualified team that "team bias" had been involved in defrauding a team of its entry fees and tarnishing its reputation. By providing consistent written documentation, if a team is going to be disqualified and thrown out of the tournament, the legal action that that team might undertake would be curtailed.
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