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Unread 25-04-2004, 08:58
Alex Cormier's Avatar
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Texan
I'm surprised Pit Bull hasn't said anything on this thread. His Title is "Mr. Omni-wheels." (or something to that meaning)
sorry a little late had a party here last night the people didn't leave till 2 am.

anyways...
omni wheels love em! i came up with them this year for our bot just so that we can turn in high gear and climb very easily and that was accompolished very well. if another bot did hit us on the right side all we needed to do we counteract it and drive towards that side and they couldn't push yes any more. they really work great and are wonderful. i will have a white paper up soon on my creation. check for it in a few weeks...

p.s. we had 2 omnis in front 2 pn. wheels i the back... heres a pic
pit out...
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Last edited by Alex Cormier : 25-04-2004 at 09:03.
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Unread 25-04-2004, 09:36
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

I'm trying to develop a drive system that can move freely in all directions for next year. And I rummaged through the whitepapers, and it the concept of using four omni-wheels, two in either direction, would work.


Code:
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Okay; that's a pretty bad drawing; but you get the idea. By running the two sets of wheels at different speeds, you can strafe your robot in different directions. This means you'll have a seperate gearbox/transmition/motors for each set of wheels, correct? Say you have two motors per set of wheels. Does that mean you can really only apply two motors worth of power in any one direction? So if you were up against a robot that had a tank drive with four motors of power in one direction, you'd only have two to their four? Now I'm just learning the basics of these engineering principles, so tell me if I'm way off.

And again; with that design, if a robot pushed yours, you'd really only have two wheels of traction to push back with?


Looking at a few designs of omni-wheels that use the metal spinners for the treads (rather than the plastic ones) what's the possibility of those damaging the carpet if you're in a pushing match and your wheel slips?


Also, what's the advantage of using omni-wheels if not for all-direction travel? For example in the above robot picture; you have the two omni-wheels in the front. You said it was so you could turn in high gear easier; so the omni-wheels provide half decent forward-backward traction and little lateral traction. Are there any other benefits?


Thanks for your time answering these.

Last edited by FizMan : 25-04-2004 at 09:39.
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Unread 25-04-2004, 09:58
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Team 1083 and 180 both used omni wheels to make a holonomic drive train. It worked very well; we rarely were pushed, as we were so much more maneuverable than anything else out there. Also, unlike casters which just "sit" there and can rotate easily, our wheels were attached directly to the motors and gear box, so pushing them was not as easy as casters.

I highly recommend holonomic drive when you want to be maneuverable.
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Unread 25-04-2004, 10:15
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Quote:
Also, what's the advantage of using omni-wheels if not for all-direction travel? For example in the above robot picture; you have the two omni-wheels in the front. You said it was so you could turn in high gear easier; so the omni-wheels provide half decent forward-backward traction and little lateral traction. Are there any other benefits?
omni wheels = motorable casters....that can or can't be movable sideways.... like mine, they can't move sideways but they rool b/c of the rollers..

we opnly used two because of the game, we wanted to get on that ramp very qucikly in which it did b/c we had a 1/2" lip to catch the edge of the 6" platform.

anything else or i missed?
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Unread 25-04-2004, 13:26
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by FizMan
I'm trying to develop a drive system that can move freely in all directions for next year. And I rummaged through the whitepapers, and it the concept of using four omni-wheels, two in either direction, would work.


Code:
-----====-----
|             |
|             |
||           ||
||           ||
|             |
|             |
-----====-----
Okay; that's a pretty bad drawing; but you get the idea. By running the two sets of wheels at different speeds, you can strafe your robot in different directions. This means you'll have a seperate gearbox/transmition/motors for each set of wheels, correct? Say you have two motors per set of wheels. Does that mean you can really only apply two motors worth of power in any one direction? So if you were up against a robot that had a tank drive with four motors of power in one direction, you'd only have two to their four? Now I'm just learning the basics of these engineering principles, so tell me if I'm way off.

And again; with that design, if a robot pushed yours, you'd really only have two wheels of traction to push back with?


Looking at a few designs of omni-wheels that use the metal spinners for the treads (rather than the plastic ones) what's the possibility of those damaging the carpet if you're in a pushing match and your wheel slips?


Also, what's the advantage of using omni-wheels if not for all-direction travel? For example in the above robot picture; you have the two omni-wheels in the front. You said it was so you could turn in high gear easier; so the omni-wheels provide half decent forward-backward traction and little lateral traction. Are there any other benefits?


Thanks for your time answering these.

Ah, you're referring to Patrick's 3DOF whitepaper right? After driving the Cornell robocup robots for a while with an XBOX controller, I have to say that such a design is just plain awesome for being mobile. If someone tries to push you, there are so many ways to move. Google Cornell Robocup and check out some of their videos for a demonstration. Patrick is also updating the Cornell team's status at the American Open in New Orleans (their first match should've been 30 min ago) in this thread: http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=28159

In addition, our team has used omniwheels in 2002 and 2003... search these forums for pics of them (and descriptions) or PM me. They've worked beautifully. We switched to tank treads this year.
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Unread 25-04-2004, 18:03
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by FizMan
... Say you have two motors per set of wheels. Does that mean you can really only apply two motors worth of power in any one direction? So if you were up against a robot that had a tank drive with four motors of power in one direction, you'd only have two to their four?...
this is the main reason that i (personally) don't like "traditional" holonomic setups. mecanum/ilon wheels (such as the ones on these robots) solve this problem to a degree, since it allows you to harness the power of all 4 motors whenever the bot is moving in a direction perpindicular or parrallel to that of wheel rotation. this setup is weakest when it is moving diagonally when only two of the wheels are being powered. in addition, since the rollers overlap, and are rounded, there isn't as much bumping present as there is in the traditional omni-wheel.
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Last edited by RogerR : 25-04-2004 at 18:06.
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Unread 25-04-2004, 18:28
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

For anyone considering the use of omni wheels on their robot, Andy Baker put out a great white paper on how team 45 made theirs and it has all the specs you need to make a great pair yourself. We on team 177 used a slight variation of these wheels on the back of our robot (we kept pneumatic tires on the front) and they allowed for excellent turning. Despite what people say you do not need at least 3 of these wheels by any stretch of the imagination. We recieved many comments from people attending the Philly regional and nationals that they thought we would be very easy to push out of the way with omni wheels and that they were surprised to see us do all of the pushing. If you saw any of our matches you know that defense was a big part of our game, and these magnificent wheels made that possible.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pa...le&paperid=226
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Unread 25-04-2004, 18:48
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Bridge
For anyone considering the use of omni wheels on their robot, Andy Baker put out a great white paper on how team 45 made theirs and it has all the specs you need to make a great pair yourself. We on team 177 used a slight variation of these wheels on the back of our robot (we kept pneumatic tires on the front) and they allowed for excellent turning. Despite what people say you do not need at least 3 of these wheels by any stretch of the imagination. We recieved many comments from people attending the Philly regional and nationals that they thought we would be very easy to push out of the way with omni wheels and that they were surprised to see us do all of the pushing. If you saw any of our matches you know that defense was a big part of our game, and these magnificent wheels made that possible.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/pa...le&paperid=226
i am interested in your omni wheels, and why u guys choose to put them in the back.. please explain.

we should get all the robots that have omni wheels and make a big gallery of them, that would look cool..
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Unread 25-04-2004, 19:03
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

well it was our first year with omini wheels-- we actually have to fix them up-- only problem i saw was the rubber on the wheels-- a lot of driving just wore them down-- all well-- i'm sure S.P.A.M. won't mind sharign our design-- nobody we saw had a drive system like us-- and we plan on making them better
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Unread 25-04-2004, 19:06
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

I saw a few teams using omni wheels bought from this site:

http://www.omniwheel.com

They have an interesting selection.

Rob
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Unread 25-04-2004, 19:09
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob
I saw a few teams using omni wheels bought from this site:

http://www.omniwheel.com

They have an interesting selection.

Rob

we actually did buy some from that site-- took the whole supply actually for that time period but the wheels didn't work for us--didn't hold our load and no clearance-- i had to actually take down the plastic but that didnt' help much either--so we had to fabricate our own wheels at the end of the 6th weeks-- but we did it-- many teams have seen our wheels they are really cool
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Unread 25-04-2004, 23:35
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffany34990
well it was our first year with omini wheels-- we actually have to fix them up-- only problem i saw was the rubber on the wheels-- a lot of driving just wore them down-- all well-- i'm sure S.P.A.M. won't mind sharign our design-- nobody we saw had a drive system like us-- and we plan on making them better
i believe 1083 had your same holonomic drive system as nathan pell posted above. I wasn't priveleged enough to see SPAM in action, but i know that 1083 was excellent.
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Unread 26-04-2004, 02:35
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by tiffany34990
nobody we saw had a drive system like us
Tiffany!?

::GASP::

Not only have you guys seen one, but it was at the Florida Regional with you.
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Unread 27-04-2004, 17:21
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

Quote:
Originally Posted by George1083
Tiffany!?

::GASP::

Not only have you guys seen one, but it was at the Florida Regional with you.

sry george meaning that nobody made wheels like us-- design that james came up with and that i got to help make and well yeah get to fix them again
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Unread 30-04-2004, 10:51
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Re: Omni Wheels Survey

We (X-CATS 191) used Omni wheels for the first time this year as well... They worked very well and we even made them from scrath recycling old copier parts we pulled out of some dumpster. I'll have to get some closer pictures for ya.

We made an 8 wheel drive system that walked up the platform. It worked well except for the side traction when we were halfway up a step and then we had issues sliding.. Oh well you live and learn...

Ellery
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