School problems

[gburlison]

We have had some good luck and bad luck in our relationships with the school system. Our first year, we were a class project at one school. After the season was over, our teacher felt overwelmed and our principal felt that a small number of students benefitted from a large amount of money raised to fund the team. As a result the second year was very stressful. We had a new teacher who really didnt want to be involved. The principal decided to shut us down before the kickoff. We decided to continue without the school support. Before the build season was over, we had gained support of the School Board and interest from a teacher at a different high school in our school district. Needless to say with all of the distractions, we were not very competitive in our second season. Since that time we have been a District Team. We have students from three of the five different high schools in our district. We have become the model by which the school district creates district based teams instead of high school based teams.

Being part of the school district requires that we deal with their buracracy concerning paying bills, holding meetings, travelling, etc. On the whole I think we get more positive than negative from our relationship with the school district.

[Pierson]

Have you thought about finding an off-campus build sponsor? Take your funds back to an off-campus account. Maintain very loose ties to the school.

That way they can't "really" hold you back.

Other than recruiting students from the school, you won't really be a school entity!

OTOH: We used to build off-campus, but it was much easier to move everything onto our school's campus.

[Joshua May]

Hey, I actually just remembered a big problem that we had with our school once. Last year, on the day of our media event, it rained (we live in the desert) and many places were flooded. Schools were subsequently closed. We ahd everything set up to go with the LA Times and the local press, but the school wouldn't allow us in. Therefore, we called all of the media and cancelled on them. We then found out that Team 399 (a local team and our mentors last year) were allowed to have their media event. So our mentor gave the superintendent an earful and then he yelled at our principal. Now that he was in trouble, they let us into the school and we had the event, however we were only able to get one local paper to come on such short notice, so we ended up with a little blurb at the end of Team 399's frontpage story.

[OneAngryDaisy]

We have an alliance with the North Montco Technical Career Center, which is like this school where kids from 6 disctricts go to if they want to learn more about hands-on careers- if you have one nearby that could be a solution.. We love NMTCC, even though it's a good 30 minute drive, because there we have many machines and never have to worry about not being able to make something. I'd suggest looking around for a potential sponsor or place to build away from school where you could be able to work whenever you need to.. good luck

[Jay H 237]

Here's a link to a similar thread dealing with different issues with schools.
http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...ad.php?t=26255
This is a thread I mentioned issues in and didn't want to retype or post twice. One thing I will say is after reading all these different threads is that more teams have issues with their schools than I originally thought.
To answer one of the original ideas of becoming 501c3 in this thread, our team has been a 501c3 tax exempt organization since shortly after we formed the team. I'm not familiar with all the rules governing 501c3 status but I do know that we applied for it when we formed our team in the fall of '98. We had to be an organization for at least six months before getting that status. We recieved it in early '99. Because we are 501c3 and get no funding from the school or board of ed they can't touch or tell us how to use our team account. This account is for the team only and gets drawn on for team money issues only wether it's for registering for events, buying material or parts, paying for team travel, lodging, ect. Being 501c3 has been a huge benefit for our team. When a company our idividual donates money, equipment or services it can be taken as a tax write off. It's a win - win situation, the team gets something it needs free and the donator gets to claim it on thier taxes. Now the downside, having this account requires keeping accurate bookeeping. All donations must be listed and a value given to them. Also with any account all withdrawls and deposits must be kept track of. Every year there's paperwork for the 501c3 that has to be filled out and given to the IRS. A 501c3 account should be handled by an adult mentor on the team with possibly some students helping out. This account should never be left to a student solely, losing paperwork or failure of keeping track of the account or not filing the paperwork every year could cause serious problems.

[JIN]

Originally Posted by RoboMom007

JIN-I know there have been other posts about these issues, which are common for many schools. FIRST is a hard sell. I think many of the problems arise from miscommunication. WE all realize how great this program is because we are in the middle of it. But we need to make it easier for others to understand. Changing the culture is hard work. It seems like the school is “against” the team, but really it’s they are overwhelmed with running a school and juggling everything that goes along with that.

Thanks, sorry if I was ranting at the school system. I didn't really mean to. My mother had spent months in a thrift shop earning funds to the club. This was the only fundraising money that went to the school directly, and not into our teams "secret account". My mother asked to take the money out, the school staff wanted to know why. Mother wanted to put the cash into our account so we could access it easier. Eventually mother had to tell about our account separate from the school. Now the school won't give the money to us till the account is closed and they have all our earnings. My mother got stressed and felt it was her fault, and that our money source was ruined. I tend to get emotional when my family gets upset and I guess I'm blaming the school system for upsetting my mother. Again sorry, I'm certain the staff had it's reasons, I just needed an outlet to release my frustration at.

Thanks for the advice.

[Winged Globe]

A guess why the school wants the money may be the whole tax-deductible issue-- namely, donating to a public school is usually a tax-exemption, but unless the money goes to the school, there's no accounting for it on the receiving end. You may be able to keep a separate account if you expressly state that the donation is not going to the school, but that may make some less inclined to donate, and you may have to pay tax on the account. (Note: I am in no way a tax lawyer)

One idea, short of making your team into its own 501c3: are there any non-profit education/community groups in your area? If so, and you're persuasive and they're nice, you can try to approach them about being your fiscal agent and a non-profit umbrella for your team. This could be useful if they're quicker and more accessible than your school. It's a stretch, but there's one in my district. Just an idea.

[JakeGallagher]

Originally Posted by RoteAugen

Oh, i think you'll find that this is a pretty rampant problem. I know at my school, they refused us any funding or assistance other than being able to use our school name at competition. It wasn't until this year that we got noticed, but when we brought home a trophy from the regional, the principal refused to put it into the trophycase, he just put it on his desk.

the big thing you want to remember is that most school administrations do not understand the full implications of the task we are set to accomplish every year in FIRST. Whether it be the money aspect, or the tools required, they simply don't understand how taxing it is to do what we do.

We get no funding whatsoever form the school or the SAU. We have applied for grants, and on a couple occations, a town-affiliated group, PEEF (Pembroke Education Endowment Fund) has loaned us money to go to competitions. The school won't give us money because to them we're a club--not a team--and as a club, we don't fall into the same catagory as the football team, who needs $10,000 worth of new equipment every season.
Our school refused to allow us to put our trophies in the main trophy case for years, and just last year they let us put a couple of them in the "auxillary" trophy case...the one that is tucked off to the side of the school in a corner where no one can see it.
I'm sure there are still more problems that I haven't even heard about from our school's administration...I just hope the teams who haven't posted are having better luck wherever they are.

Edit:

Originally Posted by JIN

Thanks, sorry if I was ranting at the school system. I didn't really mean to. My mother had spent months in a thrift shop earning funds to the club. This was the only fundraising money that went to the school directly, and not into our teams "secret account". My mother asked to take the money out, the school staff wanted to know why. Mother wanted to put the cash into our account so we could access it easier. Eventually mother had to tell about our account separate from the school. Now the school won't give the money to us till the account is closed and they have all our earnings. My mother got stressed and felt it was her fault, and that our money source was ruined. I tend to get emotional when my family gets upset and I guess I'm blaming the school system for upsetting my mother. Again sorry, I'm certain the staff had it's reasons, I just needed an outlet to release my frustration at.

Believe me, if my school did that to MY mother, I would have done a lot more than just posting on CD. I'm proud of your self-control.

[RoboMom]

It's ok to rant and get it out of your system. But then it's time to move and decide what you're going to do about it. I know my previous post was too long, but this is an issue I feel strongly about. It's so much easier to work with somebody than to have an "us vs. them" mentality. We've been through so many of all the problems listed here. Team 007 gets no cash from the school system, but we do "use" the school and we have a teacher who cares. Otherwise there would be no team. Period. Each team is dealing with their own set of hurdles and it's part of what this is all about.

I'll say it again. Try to make it easier for them to understand what FIRST is about. Do a presentation. Talk about scholarships. Talk about volunteer hours. We spent 11,000 last year. Make sure someone keeps track of things like that. Be calm, be organized, be professional. Keep your sense of humor. Give your mom a hug for caring so much.

[Paradox1350]

Our school, despite currently building a new science building, tried to act like we didn't exist until we won the Rookie All Star Award. That's right, they ignored a ROBOT TEAM despite building a new building JUST FOR SCIENCE.

They really should brag about how we, as students, secured 10k, a partnership with an Ivy League school, and ran, on our own, such a highly intensive program as FIRST.

But they don't.

Fact is, FIRST is a LOT of work, that only select students are into, and is relatively unknown. The only hope is that 30 years from now, over half hte nation is involved, and our kids won't have to fight their schools.

Honestly, Dean is right. We need to spread FIRST. Our team alone is aiming to get 3 new teams running next year. What with various people going off to various colleges, it's more than possible. By getting more people involved it makes it more mainstream and makes it more normal and more respected.

Aside from that, all you can do is never give up. There is always a way. We hit eveyr possible sang this year, and we kept on going. So always keep on going. The only way is contant perseverance. And we all know it's worth it.

[Eric Bareiss]

Here's an easy fix:

While on team 64 we had the same problem, took too long to get the money from our account. You can't have an outside account in your teams name. So we had our parent organization set up a checking account at a local credit union.

We would raise money through car washes and silent auctions and candy sales, etc. All of the checks would go into the school bank account and all of the cash went into the parent group's bank account. Now all you need is for your teacher to call one of the parents who's name is on the account and have them write a check. Simple as that.

There is also a process in which your parent group can become a non-profit group but it involves a lawyer and costs hundreds of dollars.

[Billfred]

I'm pretty sure I read this elsewhere in the thread, but here's one trick I read about earlier...buy the parts out of pocket, then fill out the forms for reimbursement. I'm pretty sure ROTC does it here. There's no way we could get the smaller stuff we need otherwise.

[Marc P.]

If it makes you feel any better, our school district cut our entrance fee ($4k) from the school budget due to financial difficulties. However, they had no trouble ponying up $20k to send our cheerleading squad to a national competition.

The problem with most schools is they are so used to accomodating athletic programs, they have trouble acknowledging "that club that tinkers with battlebots" can be educational. What you need to do is ensure your district understands what exactly FIRST is all about. Show them your robot, ramble off some gear ratios and pneumatic pressures, and trace your electrical system for them. Let them know you learned more in the 6 weeks of FIRST than you have in your entire school year (without saying it like that of course )

They can't give a program either a monetary or educational value until they realize what the program is all about. Invite some board of education members to your build sessions, invite your mayor or selectmen, your superintendant, and principal. Invite them to competitions, make them know it's a lifechanging experience, in a very positive way!!

[Pat Chen]

To echo RoboMom's reply: do a presentation to the school board, superintendent... the administrators to get them on your side......tell them about scholarship opportunities.....invite them to your regional..... once they are there.....it is so easy to be caught up in the excitement.

Getting teachers - if your team participate in the Chairman's Award.....ask an English teacher for help ..... you may be able to interest this teacher ..... most people have no idea what FIRST is all about or even how it is not just building robots....and touches other academic areas......if your school has an affiliation with the Kiwanis Club or business type organization .....interest those people by learning how to write a business plan.....run a business....and in order to run a business..you control your own accounts...that may solve your money problem.

It is hard to interest teachers to give up personal time to "sit" with the team....but have you thought of support personnel? Sometimes you can interest a non-instructional person to be the team adviser.....we are allow to do that in our school district.....our rules are the team adviser has to be a district employee ....so check on it.

I hope this help...if not email me ....I can try to brainstorm again.

Pat Chen

[slickguy2007]

I agree with RoboMom's reply. If the school won't listen to the students (which sometimes they don't) then you might want to get some parents involved too.

Our team went through the same problem last year when starting out as rookies. We ended up having to approach the board of education. I suggest that you gather students and parents , then approach the vice principle(or whoever it may be) in charge of extra curricular activities. They can't ignore you if you do it that way. If you have a legitimate organization with a legitimate purpose, they cannot deny you. If they are effecting your performance as a team, they cannot do that. They will be forced to find you an advisor. Just remember to approach the school as gracious professionals (you don't want to make anyone angry). Also, remember that you are not limited to only teachers in the high school.... Good luck and keep us posted on what happens!


GO 1403!!!