Go to Post Just because its a robotics competition does not mean everybody is a big dork. - Taxi Quinn [more]
Home
Go Back   Chief Delphi > Technical > Motors
CD-Media   CD-Spy  
portal register members calendar search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read FAQ rules

 
Closed Thread
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-04-2004, 20:17
roboteer49 roboteer49 is offline
friend to all!
no team
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: California
Posts: 15
roboteer49 is on a distinguished road
gear ratios

I know this has been talked about but all i need to know is for someone to tell me what is the gear ratio to connect a chiaphua and a drill(w/ gearbox)
I am making a gearbox that simply connects the two together w/ spurs
Any other help would be great thanks!
  #2   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-04-2004, 20:34
Cory's Avatar
Cory Cory is offline
Registered User
AKA: Cory McBride
FRC #0254 (The Cheesy Poofs)
Team Role: Engineer
 
Join Date: May 2002
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Redwood City, CA
Posts: 6,812
Cory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond reputeCory has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to Cory
Re: gear ratios

Check out JVN's whitepaper in the white papers section. It will allow you to put in the information for each motor and find out what you're looking for.

Cory
__________________
2001-2004: Team 100
2006-Present: Team 254
  #3   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-04-2004, 21:05
roboteer49 roboteer49 is offline
friend to all!
no team
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: California
Posts: 15
roboteer49 is on a distinguished road
Re: gear ratios

Is this right:
Chiaphua= 5500 rpm
Drill (no gearbox) =about 19000
The ratio is about 3.5:1

I can't seem to find the rpm of the drill w/ gearbox
I think by having the drill gearbox it will eliminate more gears. I am trying to make the gearbox as simple as possible. Lighter the better
Sorry if im sounding stupid
  #4   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-04-2004, 22:10
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,515
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Re: gear ratios

Drill no gearbox 19670 rpm
Drill with Bosch Gearbox high gear 1550 rpm
Drill with Bosch gearbox low gear 460 RPM

I personally recommend the team 716 2003 single speed transmission (in the whitepapers). It was fairly simple and lots of fun to build and it worked great. It has a nice low output speed too which is good for big tires. I do suggest you get extra drill gearboxes. You should remove, rotate, and reinstall the motor cage to lock the drill in low gear, then put a blue rubber band over the shifter clips, and then a hose clamp (not too too tight) over that. That method has worked best for us. Make your drill transmissions easily removable and have extra couplers and left hand bolts ready because you will have a transmission fail at least once and the coupler never comes off (a least not without a fight) after it has been run. That's just the nature of the Bosch drill transmission in FIRST robots. But as for all the parts outside of that, flawless.

If you have any questions on the team 716 2003 single speed gearbox, contact Andy Brockway, the designer. We used it this year and made a few slight changes/improvements and have a full inventor model and you can contact me with any questions as well.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
  #5   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-04-2004, 22:20
RogerR's Avatar
RogerR RogerR is offline
its spelled *ya'll*, not *y'all*
AKA: Roger Riquelme
FRC #3844 (Wildbots)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Somerset, KY
Posts: 913
RogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to RogerR Send a message via MSN to RogerR
Re: gear ratios

the ratio that i've seen the most when connecting the two motors and using a drill gearbox (in high) is 3.5:1, with the 35 tooth being on the chip, and the ten tooth being on the sprocket.
__________________
"But to say that the race is a metaphor for life is to miss the point. The race is everything. It obliterates whatever isn't racing. Life is a metaphor for the race." -- Donald Antrim
  #6   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 25-04-2004, 22:54
roboteer49 roboteer49 is offline
friend to all!
no team
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: California
Posts: 15
roboteer49 is on a distinguished road
Re: gear ratios

haha
I know what u mean, the drill gearbox was the death of our robot this year,
my team wants a dual motor next year so we are going to experiment with that over the summer. Thanks for ur input guys!
Next year I will personally double... no, quadruple check the gearbox

Last edited by roboteer49 : 26-04-2004 at 14:15.
  #7   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-04-2004, 14:17
roboteer49 roboteer49 is offline
friend to all!
no team
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: California
Posts: 15
roboteer49 is on a distinguished road
Re: gear ratios

A few Questions:

RogerR: The ratio for the drill w/ the gearbox is 3.5:1, isn't this the ratio without the gearbox.
Sanddrag: We are going to use 6 inch wheels, should I put the gearbox in high and configure a new ratio or change the ratio from the output shaft to the wheels.

I really apperciate ur guys help
  #8   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-04-2004, 20:44
S.Nickens's Avatar
S.Nickens S.Nickens is offline
Morpheus
#0011 (M.O.R.T.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mount Olive NJ
Posts: 40
S.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to all
Re: gear ratios

You may want rethink using the drill motor geaxboxes, they are more trouble than they're worth. While we didn't use a gearbox, we mated the chip and drill motors to a comon shaft with sprockets and chains. The chip ran a 9 to 9 tooth, while the drill ran a 9 to 32 tooth. The match was so good, the software that was written to equalize the two motors wasn't needed. On the dyno we put out .55 hp.
__________________
If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you're probably right.

2005 Palmetto AutoDesk Award
2005 Palmetto Judges Award
2005 Palmetto Semi-Finalists
2005 NJ Regional Chairmans Award
2005 NJ Regional Finalists
2004 Curie Div. 5th Seed
2004 Palmetto Regional Winners
2004 Palmetto DC Team Spirit Award
2004 Chesapeke Semi-Finalists
2004 Trenton Semi-Finalists
  #9   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-04-2004, 21:25
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,515
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Re: gear ratios

Quote:
Originally Posted by S.Nickens
While we didn't use a gearbox, we mated the chip and drill motors to a comon shaft with sprockets and chains. The chip ran a 9 to 9 tooth, while the drill ran a 9 to 32 tooth.
While I am able to visualixe this, a picture would be magnificent. Looking at any picture of a drive system is always a learning experience for me Thanks. Also. what pitch chain was it, .1475 ?
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
  #10   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 26-04-2004, 23:43
RogerR's Avatar
RogerR RogerR is offline
its spelled *ya'll*, not *y'all*
AKA: Roger Riquelme
FRC #3844 (Wildbots)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Rookie Year: 2001
Location: Somerset, KY
Posts: 913
RogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond reputeRogerR has a reputation beyond repute
Send a message via AIM to RogerR Send a message via MSN to RogerR
Re: gear ratios

Quote:
Originally Posted by roboteer49
RogerR: The ratio for the drill w/ the gearbox is 3.5:1, isn't this the ratio without the gearbox.
sure is, only reversed. where as you would have the pinion on the drill motor, and the gear on the chip, with the gearbox on the drill, there positions are reversed.
__________________
"But to say that the race is a metaphor for life is to miss the point. The race is everything. It obliterates whatever isn't racing. Life is a metaphor for the race." -- Donald Antrim
  #11   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-04-2004, 00:00
Ryan F.'s Avatar
Ryan F. Ryan F. is offline
Registered User
no team
Team Role: Alumni
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Rookie Year: 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 376
Ryan F. is a jewel in the roughRyan F. is a jewel in the roughRyan F. is a jewel in the rough
Re: gear ratios

I found a good whitepaper once...I believe it was something like the Who's ctek's....they have a complete design for a gearbox using the chips and drill motors together.
  #12   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-04-2004, 00:07
sanddrag sanddrag is offline
On to my 16th year in FRC
FRC #0696 (Circuit Breakers)
Team Role: Teacher
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Rookie Year: 2002
Location: Glendale, CA
Posts: 8,515
sanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond reputesanddrag has a reputation beyond repute
Re: gear ratios

Quote:
Originally Posted by rforystek
I found a good whitepaper once...I believe it was something like the Who's ctek's....they have a complete design for a gearbox using the chips and drill motors together.
Yeah, they are team 716 as I stated above http://www.chiefdelphi.com/forums/sh...32&postcount=4

Now, if you want to use the drills in high gear with the Chiaphuas, look at what we (696) did last year or 498 did this year (same thing). Here's a pic http://www.team696.org/forum/image.php?iid=164

If you have any questions about anything drive systems related, send me an e-mail.
__________________
Teacher/Engineer/Machinist - Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2011 - Present
Mentor/Engineer/Machinist, Team 968 RAWC, 2007-2010
Technical Mentor, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2005-2007
Student Mechanical Leader and Driver, Team 696 Circuit Breakers, 2002-2004
  #13   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-04-2004, 22:24
S.Nickens's Avatar
S.Nickens S.Nickens is offline
Morpheus
#0011 (M.O.R.T.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mount Olive NJ
Posts: 40
S.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to all
Re: gear ratios

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanddrag
While I am able to visualixe this, a picture would be magnificent. Looking at any picture of a drive system is always a learning experience for me Thanks. Also. what pitch chain was it, .1475 ?
Hope this helps. We used .250 ( 1/4 ) pitch chain and sprockets. The large sprocket on the right is driven by the drill motor, you can't quite see the 9 tooth sprocket driven by the chip on the same shaft to the right of the 32. This main shaft also drives two 9 tooth sprockets which go to our reduction sprockets/shafts. There are five sprocket/shafts for the primary drive leading to the wheels.
The setup was very reliable. If you need more specs let me know.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	drive.jpg
Views:	104
Size:	90.8 KB
ID:	2194  
__________________
If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you're probably right.

2005 Palmetto AutoDesk Award
2005 Palmetto Judges Award
2005 Palmetto Semi-Finalists
2005 NJ Regional Chairmans Award
2005 NJ Regional Finalists
2004 Curie Div. 5th Seed
2004 Palmetto Regional Winners
2004 Palmetto DC Team Spirit Award
2004 Chesapeke Semi-Finalists
2004 Trenton Semi-Finalists

Last edited by S.Nickens : 27-04-2004 at 22:36.
  #14   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-04-2004, 22:38
roboteer49 roboteer49 is offline
friend to all!
no team
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: California
Posts: 15
roboteer49 is on a distinguished road
Re: gear ratios

What kind of bearings do u use for the drive train?
I need to hav a bearing that can be inserted in the plate like S. Nickens
Also S. Nickens did u have to replace ur gearbox during competition, ive decided to use the gearbox in high with a 3.5:1 ratio w/ the chip.
Im not good w/ rpm, what would be the rpm of of the drive shaft so i can determine the speed, again thanks.

hehe, one last question, is there a way i can determine if the chain i use to connect 2 sprockets will not sag?

Last edited by roboteer49 : 27-04-2004 at 23:02.
  #15   Spotlight this post!  
Unread 27-04-2004, 23:04
S.Nickens's Avatar
S.Nickens S.Nickens is offline
Morpheus
#0011 (M.O.R.T.)
Team Role: Mentor
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Mount Olive NJ
Posts: 40
S.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to allS.Nickens is a name known to all
Re: gear ratios

Quote:
Originally Posted by roboteer49
What kind of bearings do u use for the drive train?
I need to hav a bearing that can be inserted in the plate like S. Nickens
Also S. Nickens did u have to replace ur gearbox during competition, ive decided to use the gearbox in high with a 3.5:1 ratio w/ the chip
We used 5/16 ID flange bearings the were press fit into the side plates held in place with retaining rings.
We didn't use the gearbox that came with the drill motors. We took out the motors, pressed off the gear and made a custom shaft to adapt to the sprocket shafts. We mounted the drill motor with a custom aluminium mount that also acted as a heat shield. Both motors were mounted to the inner sideplate. I have some AutoCad drawings if you're interested.
The drill motor runs approx. 20,000 rpm, with the reduction of the 32 tooth sprocket it runs 5500 rpm, equal to the chip.The drill runs a 9 to 32 and the chip runs a 9 to 9, so you you have two motors spining a single shaft that spins at 5500 rpm. From there you need to determine your estimated velocity and wheel dia. to determine your final reduction. There are some good white papers to help you figure this out. If I can help answer any more question, just ask.
__________________
If you think you can, or if you think you can't, you're probably right.

2005 Palmetto AutoDesk Award
2005 Palmetto Judges Award
2005 Palmetto Semi-Finalists
2005 NJ Regional Chairmans Award
2005 NJ Regional Finalists
2004 Curie Div. 5th Seed
2004 Palmetto Regional Winners
2004 Palmetto DC Team Spirit Award
2004 Chesapeke Semi-Finalists
2004 Trenton Semi-Finalists

Last edited by S.Nickens : 27-04-2004 at 23:19.
Closed Thread


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reverse Gear FizMan Technical Discussion 12 26-04-2004 01:29
Thunder Chicken CCT Simon G Motors 4 03-01-2003 13:18
"Motors and Drive train edition" of Fresh From the Forum Ken Leung CD Forum Support 6 29-01-2002 12:32
Drivetrain Help Jordan Technical Discussion 16 02-12-2001 12:14
Drill motor gearBox question Dennis Hughes Motors 4 11-10-2001 07:11


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:48.

The Chief Delphi Forums are sponsored by Innovation First International, Inc.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © Chief Delphi