Qualification for Disney in 2003

[Todd Derbyshire]

Hey I was wondering is it 3 or 5 points a team needs to qualify next year for Disney?

Also does the Spirit award count for 1 point in this system?

[rollncoast]

I honestly hope that FIRST gets rid of this mangled system anyway. I think that FIRST is admitting they have a problem, but no admitting that they have no solution for it. Everywhere Dean goes he "rallies the troops" to get more teams, more sponsors, more engineers, more colleges, more everything. Then, he turns around and says because we are getting so large not everyone that wants to can come to nationals. Ok, so the first step to fixing a problem is admitting you have it. I in no way think that FIRST should stop growing, I think in fact that there should be tons of growth. However, the solution proposed is not a solution to the problem. The current solution is basically to have even numbered teams compete one year, odd the next. That doesn't make very much sense. Or, you can go to a bunch of regionals one year and really go for tons of awards and get points to go the next year. Maybe the solution is having two semi-nationals... an east coast and a west coast, or having one national for only the winners of the regionals, or maybe just not having a national at all. At the end, I think FIRST must sit back and figure out a long term solution, fair to everyone, to fix this problem.

[Leon Machado IV]

I don't believe it's Dean that's preventing us from going to Disney. I believe Disney can no longer handle us. Kinda amazing really.

[The Lucas]

Another problem with the qualification system is that some qualified teams can't afford to travel to Epcot. At Drexel, Team 157 "The Aztechs" was #1 seed and won the regional. However, they said they can't attend nationals for financial reasons. I think it will diminish the competition not to have such a great bot and team at nationals.

[K. Skontrianos]

I think that the national should be open to teams that had a high seed in their regionals. It would remove the unfairness of the even/odd system and allow teams that deserve to go to Florida to enter the national. Winning a regional involves quite a bit of luck in addition to skill. The point system is also weak because the bigger teams with the 'wealthier' sponsors can devote more time to things like technical awards. Going by seeding at regionals is probably the most accurate way to send deserving teams to Florida. Say the top 15 teams from each regional qualify. Exceptions could be made for rookies too so they could have a chance to get in. Hopefully some kind of solution will be found by FIRST that allows as many teams in as possible.

[Anthony S.]

In answer to the original question about qualifications, you are required to have five (5) points to qualify for the championship. I am almost sure that the spirit award counts, I'm not totally sure but I'm almost certain it counts, someone please correct me if I'm wrong.

Here is a link to the original letter posted by FIRST:
Championship Eligibility

[Kris Verdeyen]

What is so terrible about the even / odd system that we have now?

Every high school student in America should be afforded the opportunity to participate in FIRST, therefore we don't want to stop forming new teams. There are too many teams now, so not all of them can go to nationals.

The number of teams that go to nationals has been, until this year, limited only by the cost of attending. This is no longer limiting enough.

So why don't we send the top seeds from each regional? Because that is not what FIRST is about. There are teams that, no matter how hard they work, are so limited in resources and support that they'll never rank high enough to qualify. The beauty of this system is that every team gets to go at least once every other year. If a team performs exceptionally, they can go in their off year, otherwise, they don't have to wait long until their next turn to go.

Any system where there is a chance that a team will never get a chance to go to nationals won't get my vote.

The only change I would suggest would be to allow all rookie teams to go. Many rookies wouldn't go anyway, because of financial issues, but the ones that do will be better for the experience.

[JAlpert]

The even/odd system is not so bad.

Basically what the point system does is make sure the teams that consistently do well every year get a chance to go to nationals, while also keeping the total size of the competition down. For many rookie teams, it can take a few years to get to the point where they can consistently build a competitive robot. I believe that any team who participates for more than a couple of years can do this.

I do, however, like the idea of the East/West national and one Grand National to end it all. That seems like the fairest organization for the growing number of teams. With the dwindling economy, however, the sponsors of FIRST may not be able to shell out the extra cash necessary for another two huge competitions.

As for the "top seeds from regionals get to go" policy, this would not work. One can see from the disparity this season between teams that qualify well and teams that win the eliminations, to give preference to the top seeds would be unfair. If the points system must stay in place, one might suggest that the top 3 or so seeds and the winning alliance get to go to the national.

If Dean and his buddies can think up such "diabolical" games every year, you would think they could work this out too. I guess we just have to live with the current system.

Jeff Alpert
Team 469

[Wayne C.]

Reading the above posts brings me back to the very start of the season and the firestorm of controversy about the change in the rulings.

FIRST cannot, in all fairness, change the rules next season without unfairly penalizing all of the odd number teams which were excluded this year. If they did that would create an even bigger controversy.

As for what qualifies you- well only the half dozen or so quality engineering awards FIRST has been posting with the Regional results are the ones which qualify. Spirit is great but is doesn't qualify you. It is a bit incredible to me that it doesn't considering the Inspiration part of FIRST.

The odd/even system has its flaws. It does exclude incredible teams. But that's the breaks. We hashed this out last October. Lets move on and prepare for 2003- the year of the ODD teams.
Lets have the ODD teams show FIRST just what the competition lost out on in 2002 by coming on strong in 2003.

BTW- despite incredible success (top 4 at RU, 2nd place, Eng. Inspiration Award) we were excluded and we are accepting it. The pain is still there but it will fade as we work on our goals. We are already prepping for our biggest season yet. Just think- we get an extra month to work on the next year's plans!


WC

[Raul]

Wayne,

I agree with your statements and admire your positive attitude.

Raul

[Michael Murphy]

Out of fairness to odd-numbered teams, 2003 needs to be like this year. But after that, why not have competitions at both Disneyland and Disneyworld, with the winners competing up in New Hampshire, where this all started? The championship could either be at FIRST Place in Manchester or at Dean's house. Either location has enough space for only six teams. This isn't the first time this idea's been brought up, and it makes sense with five new regionals being planned next year. Two "national" competitions would allow more teams to compete, even if fewer teams were allowed at each competition.

[Paul Copioli]

Wayne,

All judged awards count for points. We got the Sportsmanship award last year and that is what put us over the 5 points for this year. All judged awards count (Spirit, Sportsmanship, etc), not just engineering awards. I think the distinction is awards that are voted on (Best Play of the Day).

-Paul

[Joe Matt]

Disneyland won't work. Where will they put it? It is literally an amusement complex in the middle of a neighborhood. They have two hotels, two amusement parks. They don't have enough room for us to stay, let alone a place to compete.

[Kris Verdeyen]

Originally posted by Wayne C.
... we were excluded and we are accepting it.

FIRST opened up Nationals to all teams last month.

http://www.usfirst.org/robotics/ch_registration.htm

[Christine G.]

Well then...how about a National Competition at Disney World and another at Universal in Florida running at the same time Thursday, Friday, Saturday with a Championship match between the two winners on Sunday at either Disney or Universal. That way everyone is already in Florida and only has to spend 1 extra day.