Qualification for Disney in 2003

[Joe Matt]

Ya, he said that that's why hes going this year. He won it last year. So if you win it this year, you can go next, etc, etc.

[Joe3]

I was wondering, MOE team 365 recieved that chairman's award at the Philly regional. I was wondering, does that qualify us for nats next year?

Thanks,
Joe

[Shannon Maloney]

i was sort of against limiting nationals when the idea was first proposed, but now i don't think its a problem...some people think dean wants nats to be smaller, others think that disney can't handle it...i think if ever team that could afford to go to disney went, we could be there for an entire week of qualifing rounds because there were just so many teams...can u imagine four days of qualifing rounds?....talk about boring!...yea....well...thats all i have to say

~~Shannon~~

[ReijiH]

An entire week of qualifying rounds? Nah. When FIRST start accepting every teams, and the national became twice as large as it is now, that'd require minimum of 50% more space...that is, if we only increase the pit area. However, if nationals were to take place with same time schedule as it is right now, they'd have to add four more playing field....yay! Well, that'd save the problem of having to have an entire week of competition but it'll bring up the problem about space. I don't know wether getting another parking lot freed up would cost less or having the national extend additional 3 days would cost less.

[Melissa Nute]

I remember hearing something that Disney will build an pit and field large enough for how many teams there are. So maybe it is just Dean trying to limit the amount and not Disney.

[Nate Smith]

Originally posted by Joe3
I was wondering, MOE team 365 recieved that chairman's award at the Philly regional. I was wondering, does that qualify us for nats next year?

Thanks,
Joe

You'll have to check the qualification info on FIRST's web page, but I believe regional chairman's award winner qualifies you for this year, and will most likely give you points for next year as well...

[Nate Smith]

Originally posted by Yearbook50
I remember hearing something that Disney will build an pit and field large enough for how many teams there are. So maybe it is just Dean trying to limit the amount and not Disney.

While Disney did make this claim a few years ago, I have a feeling they didn't expect the growth that FIRST is having. Also, with the number of staff that FIRST has, they can only make the event so large before it grows beyond what they can manage. So, personally, I don't think it's just Disney making the call, and I don't think it's just FIRST either(sidebar: everyone saying it's Dean trying to limit should really say it's FIRST trying to limit...my experience working with FIRST staff makes me pretty sure that Dean has little to nothing to do with event logistics), but rather both Disney and FIRST feeling the growing pains of the ever-increasing number of teams.

[Anthony S.]

Originally posted by Joe3
I was wondering, MOE team 365 recieved that chairman's award at the Philly regional. I was wondering, does that qualify us for nats next year?

From my understanding of the Championship Eligibility , if you win the regional chairman's award, that qualifies you for current year nationals only. But if you win it at nationals that qualifies you for next year and so on. I didn't see any points for the regional chairman's award either. Some one correct me if I'm wrong, think link is above.

[Keith Chester]

Here's what I think, which is in no way the definately right or nonprejudiced view (I'm on an odd team, so naturally I hate the current system.)
To be fair to all odd teams, next year the system must be the same.
But in 2004?
I support the idea of not 2, but 3 seminationals. One for the middle of the country.
But imagine the cost! most teams have to travel to make regionals, let alone the nationals or hypothetical semi nationals. And the winners, or top 8, 15, 20, whatever amount of teams do qualify, only large teams with gracious funding will be able to make all the trips. Think about teams, early in their lives, with smaller budgest than other teams that have been around longer. Also, I 've seen some low budget teams turn out great robots this year- it would be a shame to deny them competition because of money.
Money talks, the rest walks? No way fair.
Dean Kamen is being a little hypocritical with the rule changes, I admit, but I think it's better to limit the amount of people competeing in the nationals than the amount of people that can join FIRST. Let it grow to every highschool!
Good luck to everyone that's going to the nationals.
And sorry for my belated reply. I really have to check these forums more often.

[Nate Smith]

Originally posted by Anthony S.


From my understanding of the Championship Eligibility , if you win the regional chairman's award, that qualifies you for current year nationals only. But if you win it at nationals that qualifies you for next year and so on. I didn't see any points for the regional chairman's award either. Some one correct me if I'm wrong, think link is above.

One thing to keep in mind...when the res_art9.htm page was created, it was specifically for the 2002 competition. Therefore, since there was no regional chairman's award winner in 2001, it was not listed. I am almost certain that, with the Chairman's award being the most prestigious award given by FIRST, the regional Chairman's award will have some point value for 2003.

I support the idea of not 2, but 3 seminationals. One for the middle of the country.

I think before determining where to have a national event, or even how many are needed, a look into the distribution of teams nationwide needs to be made. The last time I checked(which was a year or two ago), there were not enough teams in the center of the country to warrant a national event there.

But imagine the cost! most teams have to travel to make regionals, let alone the nationals or hypothetical semi nationals. And the winners, or top 8, 15, 20, whatever amount of teams do qualify, only large teams with gracious funding will be able to make all the trips. Think about teams, early in their lives, with smaller budgest than other teams that have been around longer. Also, I 've seen some low budget teams turn out great robots this year- it would be a shame to deny them competition because of money.
Money talks, the rest walks? No way fair.

As others have mentioned, due to the nature of the event, there will always be a financial barrier for some teams. In that respect, I offer the following suggestions:

1. Get your team's school(s) and/or community to recognize the FIRST team on a level close or equivalent to that of any of the sports teams, with the same stipulation that the district/community/"boosters" will assist in travel expenses if a team does indeed qualify for nationals.

2. On FIRST's end, give the teams who qualify based on the current year's performance a waiver on their registration cost for the national competition. For those teams who get to go based on previous years' performance or the odd/even year criteria, they must pay the $4K registration costs as normal. This eases the financial burden further for those teams who are planning for nationals at the last minute because of performance at a regional event.

As I have mentioned several times before on this board, it is my feeling that having multiple national events dilutes the prestige of being able to call yourself national champions. After all, which sounds more impressive, "national champion," or "national champion, eastern division" ? It's my feeling that with a system similar to what I have described above, a single national event would still be feasible for some time to come.

Dean Kamen is being a little hypocritical with the rule changes, I admit, but I think it's better to limit the amount of people competeing in the nationals than the amount of people that can join FIRST.

I agree with you wholeheartedly that limiting the teams at nationals is the way to go, rather than placing a team # cap on FIRST itself. However, in regards to your other comment quoted above, I have to disagree. First, as I have mentioned previously on this board, shifting the blame to Dean on issues such as this is completely incorrect. While I'm sure he had some input on the process, in general, I am certain he has very little to do with event logistics, which this would definitely fall under. I suppose my main other issue with that statement is that I fail to see where Dean/FIRST is doing anything that I would call hypocritical. If you would clarify what you meant when you wrote that, I would be glad to discuss it further.

[AdamT]

Originally posted by Anthony S.


From my understanding of the Championship Eligibility , if you win the regional chairman's award, that qualifies you for current year nationals only. But if you win it at nationals that qualifies you for next year and so on. I didn't see any points for the regional chairman's award either. Some one correct me if I'm wrong, think link is above.

The point of the Regional Chairman's Award isn't to let more teams go to Nationals, but it's to recognize more teams. I that this award being added has little to do with National qualifications...

[Amy Beth]

I agree with those of you who said we should keep the current system for next year, but after that i definitely think we need a change.

Let me just be totally straight and say i hate the idea of "semi-nationals". If i have a good robot, i don't want to be stuck playing just the west coast teams. I want to be able to play against beatty and chief delphi. What is wrong with limiting the nationals to those who rank highest in the regionals? That way, with some exception, the nationals could be a match up of the best, most experienced teams. No offense to those of you on rookie teams, but you don't need to go to the nationals. Enjoy your regional. Get a feel for how the competition works. And if you manage to do well one year, then you'll get to compete against everyone else the next year.

[Kevin Ray]

AmyBeth330 No offense to those of you on rookie teams, but you don't need to go to the nationals. Enjoy your regional. Get a feel for how the competition works. And if you manage to do well one year, then you'll get to compete against everyone else the next year.

Wooaa, I ABSOLUTELY disagree with that. We are in our fourth season and I still remember the very long nights and lack of success the first two years at the regionals. Had that been all we had to look forward to, then many on our team would have been discouraged and might not have continued (including some of the advisors [not me though]).

It was the first trip to the Nats. that opened our eyes so wide to the possibilities and the inspiration, that they still haven't completley closed. I've spoken to very many teams about their first experience at the Nats and, to a team, they ALL agree that that was a defining moment in their team's development, where they were inspired to do more work, better planning/design and felt that they had a better idea of the "big picture". You can get much of that at a regional, but like it's comparing a new Chevy Lumina to a new BMW, they're in two different leagues.

Denying rookies the right to go to the nats, or basing it on performance alone would KILL this program for many fledgling, underfunded teams. FIRST's National Competition would become a venue for corporate showmanship and we would lose many of the very people we seek to inspire.

!!!!!!PLEASE don't think that way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[purplehaze357]

Wooaa, I ABSOLUTELY disagree with that. We are in our fourth season and I still remember the very long nights and lack of success the first two years at the regionals. Had that been all we had to look forward to, then many on our team would have been discouraged and might not have continued (including some of the advisors [not me though]).

agreed..i think everyone here can attest to the 2-3 o'clock mornings, and even the rookie teams put in...and for one person to discourage a team form going based souly on the fact that they are rookies is not what FIRST is looking for...we have to realize that everyone put the same amount of time into this...my team is in its third year and ive been there since the begining and this year will be our first shot at nationals, i want the seniors that have dedicated soo much of ehir time into this program to get there and i want every senior that have devoted their invaluable time to be able to do it...and this isnt for just seniors either i just think it is important to recognize all of the teams that are going not just the rookies...not just the veterans and excluding no one...FIRST is about everyone as a whole and i think we need to encourage everyoe to get involved and we wont have any rookie teams if we say stuff like rookies cant go to florida...we need to encourage more and more schools to get involved

Now i didnt mean to go off on that mini tangent but to answer the real question it is a 5 point system...Good Luck Everyone in Florida or if your in any of the upcoming regionals good luck there

[Anthony S.]

Many people may not agree with me but its just my opinion. Don't think I have a biased opinion because I am a even numbered team, but I think the new system is fair. FIRST is getting too large for Disney, thats a known fact. So what else is there to do??? There is a good posibility that my team won't make to nationals next year because of the system, I hate that I'll have to miss nationals in my senior year, but I have to get over it. the even/odd number system offers everyone a chance to go every other year. High school is 4 years and its good to go to at least 1 national before you graduate. I apologize to the rookie team seniors who won't be able to make nationals. But I disagree with the idea of semi-nationals. Once you sit and think, this is the best solution. I haven't seen a better one yet. The only solution I can think of is finding a larger site, and I don't see that happening soon.

Just my $0.02.